Metal shavings on magnetic oil drain plug

[MYBAD79]

I noticed what looks like metal shavings on my magnetic oil drain plug. It looks like grinding dust and mixed with the old oil it looks like anti seize compound.... 1800 miles on the engine and I've changed the oil about 5 times already.
Is this normal or should I be concerned ??




.

 

[mrvette]

:goodnight: ****,

Camshaft?? flat tappet....??

if so, what brand??

been many of them all over the joints for some time now....Comp cams seems to be the worst as I recall...makes me wonder who's billets....

:bonkers::rain:

I"d cut the filter apart too, see what....

how was the Oil pressure??

 

[Twin_Turbo]

That's a lot of shavings, especially on the 5th oil change. Something's not right. Check your distr. gear. What kind of cam do you have in there?

 

[MYBAD79]

It's a Comp roller cam, 230-236 dur, .510/.520" lift.... , there's no valvetrain noise whatsoever.... had the dizzy out not too long ago when I swapped the intake. Did not notice anything abnormal.

 

[mrvette]

Spot anything like that on previous O changes??

:bonkers:

 

[big2bird]

If it runs fine, run it till it croaks. Why not have some fun before it dies?

 

[mrvette]

If it runs fine, run it till it croaks. Why not have some fun before it dies?

Because he luck runs like mine, it would leave me stranded in the middle of the desert.....about 1000 miles from BFE....

:shocking::hissyfit:

 

[MYBAD79]

Spot anything like that on previous O changes??

:bonkers:

yes, same stuff was on the magnet...

it's the 5th oil change but only 2000 miles since the engine was rebuilt.

 

[mrvette]

:crap: I dunno, only seen one thing similar, back in the '70, a friend with a '63 Split, he built a SB for it, and had something in the casting at fault, I dunno what the symptoms far as magnetic **** in the pan/plug, but the block was defective.....

I would pull the pan and chain cover at this point, pull some caps and see who's home....:search::gurney:

Edit, Karsten, is that a FACTORY roller design or aftermarket toggle types?? if it's the toggle types...I bet that's the issue...it's been posted a few times as being troubles like that....

 

[Wesch]

Hi

Wow, that's a lot of metal flakes for this few miles.
I wouldn't keep on driving without finding the cause as this is not normal, no way.

And like written already, the filter is probably filled as well.

Should be possible to find the cause with this amount .

And surely not a crank bearing.

Probably the camshaft, even without valve noise because the hydraulic lifters do compensate a bit for wear.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Oh, you would probably drive happily an other few K miles if you had not installed this stupid magnet.prrtt:

I have one as well as I do not cut open the filters every time after a oil change to check.

Rgds. Günther

 

[010752]

Hard to tell from your pics, but if it looks and feels like fuzz or like paste then that is normal, not real shavings. You will get this on the magnet forever.

Years ago the old VW bugs used a screen and magnetic plug instead of a filter. Japanese motorcyles almost all used magnets, since the late 60's.

I have used them since the early 70's, but they were probably not as strong as the newer neodymium magnets.

Think of it as a good thing, less crap being recirculated. Remember sbc filtration is no where near 100%, so this helps a lot.

 

[bobs77vet]

that looks like it could be the wear from the top of valve pushrods to me....did you use new pushrods?

 

[MYBAD79]

that looks like it could be the wear from the top of valve pushrods to me....did you use new pushrods?

I used new pushrods but used rockers... hmmmm.... this one is relatively easy to check... easier than pulling the oil pan

Hard to tell from your pics, but if it looks and feels like fuzz or like paste then that is normal, not real shavings. You will get this on the magnet forever.

Yes, it and looks and feels like fuzz .. almost like dried anti seize

 

[mrvette]

that looks like it could be the wear from the top of valve pushrods to me....did you use new pushrods?

I used new pushrods but used rockers... hmmmm.... this one is relatively easy to check... easier than pulling the oil pan

Hard to tell from your pics, but if it looks and feels like fuzz or like paste then that is normal, not real shavings. You will get this on the magnet forever.

Yes, it and looks and feels like fuzz .. almost like dried anti seize

So it looks like wet 2000 grit sandpaper??? and no metallic pieces you can see that are any larger??

rings wearing into the walls???

:bonkers:h:

 

[MYBAD79]

So it looks like wet 2000 grit sandpaper??? and no metallic pieces you can see that are any larger??

rings wearing into the walls???

:bonkers:h:

yup, like 1500-2000 grit sandpaper... more like dust.... might be material from the bores, dunno...

I have never used a magnetic oil plug but this one came with the pan that I bought so I used it. Can't hurt, right ???

I am beginning to wonder if this is in fact absolutely normal and just not noticeable when using a standard (non magnetic) drain plug.

Looking at this dust I am wondering if I should plug the bypass and change the filter more often... it might get plugged with this stuff...

I still have the old filter, I'll cut it open and inspect it tomorrow.... I think I want to put the internals in a container with gas or diesel and put a few magnets in the container to attract any magnetic particles... time for a science project :bonkers:

 

[mrvette]

I have never owned any vehicle with a magnetic engine drain plug....

seen more than a few auto tranny pans with magnets on bottom, always full of crap sticking to them....but then again it's steel rings with clutches, and thrust bearings...so expect to see that...sorta like the black sludge in the pan bottom only more of it, and thicker, and of course metallic....

hopefully TT is right, and you got no issues....:harhar::beer::beer:

 

[MYBAD79]

Now that you mention it: I dropped the pan and changed the filter on my Camaro auto trans at 110000 miles. The magnet had like a pound of stuff sticking to it... nasty....

 

[DWncchs]

Did you clean and blow out your new pushrods , I've seen some nasty stuff come out of them ?

 

[MYBAD79]

Did you clean and blow out your new pushrods , I've seen some nasty stuff come out of them ?

I don't even remember to be honest. It's been almost three years.... I bought ARP hardened 1pc super kryptonite pushrods for like $100 a set.. .. back when I first started the new engine I primed it and I had oil flow to all rockers, I would think this would have flushed crud out of the rods.
I have changed the oil like 4 or 5 times since Jan 2007 (although I only put less than 2000 miles on the engine since then) - if it was stuff trapped somewhere it should have stopped after the first two oil changes....

 

[damoroso]

You know, you might think about finding a place that would do an oil analysis for you. I don't know of any off hand, but it's a common practice in the aviation world and with heavy equipment too. A quick search shows a bunch of options this is one: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ They get $22.50 for a standard test. Cheap insurance for piece of mind if you ask me....

 

[saudivette]

That looks like the buildup on mag plugs after new build (jet engines). We call it "build debris" and it eventually dies off. I think it's pretty normal in a reciprocating engine though as everything is wearing against something else - it's all gotta go somewhere. I just think you normally wouldn't notice that crap in your oil :thumbs:

 

[damoroso]

Yes but, most turbines or jets and associated gear boxes have "Fuzz burn off" capability in the chip detection systems... Kinda wish we had that with our engines!!

 

[TimAT]

Every gas turbine/jet engine oil system I've ever seen has chip detectors (magnetinc plugs).
We have a saying in the big airplane world. If you pull it out and it looks like a Christmas tree or the chips have serial numbers it's time to pull the engine. Anything else is OK.

If the oil filter(s) plug up you get a warning light or a message. Helicopters have a light on the transmission that comes on when the detector sees chips. Helicopter world that classifies as "OH SH**"

 

[Yellow73SB]

Mine looked pretty similar also

 

[saudivette]

Yes but, most turbines or jets and associated gear boxes have "Fuzz burn off" capability in the chip detection systems... Kinda wish we had that with our engines!!

Hmmm... not heard of "fuzz burn off" before. Is that pretty new technology? I've been working on old crap for years...

Every gas turbine/jet engine oil system I've ever seen has chip detectors (magnetinc plugs).
We have a saying in the big airplane world. If you pull it out and it looks like a Christmas tree or the chips have serial numbers it's time to pull the engine. Anything else is OK.

If the oil filter(s) plug up you get a warning light or a message. Helicopters have a light on the transmission that comes on when the detector sees chips. Helicopter world that classifies as "OH SH**"

It's funny Tim, the P&W TF30 (F111 engine) didn't have mag plugs but we used to do SOAP samples every 10? 20? hours.
Gear teeth on an MCD is another way of saying you have an engine change...

 

[damoroso]

No, the burn off technoloby isn't that new, H60's have it in their gear boxes. The chip detectors are shaped kind of like spark plugs, and if a chip bridges the gap, a small electrical charge burns it off. If it doesn't burn off, it sets the chip light. If I remember correctly, the GE T700's have the same chip system, but I might be wrong, it's been a while! Like Tim said, a chip light in a helo is really an "OH SH**!!" light! LOL

If I were getting that much material on the drain plug of my engine, I'd still consider a oil analysis. That way you'd know what the material was in the oil and that would give you a clue as to where it came from.

 

[mrvette]

No, the burn off technoloby isn't that new, H60's have it in their gear boxes. The chip detectors are shaped kind of like spark plugs, and if a chip bridges the gap, a small electrical charge burns it off. If it doesn't burn off, it sets the chip light. If I remember correctly, the GE T700's have the same chip system, but I might be wrong, it's been a while! Like Tim said, a chip light in a helo is really an "OH SH**!!" light! LOL

If I were getting that much material on the drain plug of my engine, I'd still consider a oil analysis. That way you'd know what the material was in the oil and that would give you a clue as to where it came from.

Dave, I kind of disagree with you on that, the magnetic particles are obviously ferrous in nature, and bearing material is not.....so that means...

cam related, OR ring related....unless something totally weird in the oil pump?? no other ferrous is subject to wear....no??

 

[damoroso]

Gene,

Actually I think you're making my point. Because we don't know what's in the gunk, it might make good sense and a good use of $25 to have an oil analysis done, so you know what material that is. At least that way, you might have a clue where to look next....

 

[mrvette]

Gene,

Actually I think you're making my point. Because we don't know what's in the gunk, it might make good sense and a good use of $25 to have an oil analysis done, so you know what material that is. At least that way, you might have a clue where to look next....

It could tell the diff between the block and say timing chain I suppose...no??

crank?? what else is left??

ME being somewhat impatient, I would tear that sob down looking for clues and if nothing found....off goes the oil for testing....my approach anyway...

figgering that no matter what the test said, all that **** coming apart anyway....

not like it was one of Tim's airplanes there....:beer:

 

[GT6Steve]

Something writen above reminded me, I noticed a DRAMATIC reduction in sludge on the magnetic plugs when I started sealing the inside of the blocks with Glyptol. Not chips mind you, just ferrous sludge. I believe the pores of cast iron blocks are filled with crap that is sealed in by the paint.

Obviously this has to be done just after the block is well boiled...