Body work help...

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Thanks for the info John. At the moment, I need to fill the join line where I've grafted the C5 Corvette script into my rear bumper and put a little bit of filler in some low points. I have some PPG IVIPLAST 66 Flexible Polyester Putty body filler that I was "assured" would be ok over fiberglass. Is this the case? I'd rather use that than start into my limited supply of 8115 that I'll need to fill the bumper join lines etc. Also, if that body filler's ok, why can't I go straight over the fiberglass with it? When doing body work years ago, I always used body filler over bare metal, not over any sort of paint and thought the same would apply to putting body filler over fiberglass?? I don't have any spray gear out here and wasn't really planning on getting any!

I have never used any IVIPAST 66 so I had to do a little searching.
http://www.hex.co.uk/tds/ppgcar/A242A652A722A655A656A659A661Stopper.pdf

According to PPGs link above the 66 is NOT to be used directly over fiberglass.
It is a plastics only filler (like in bumper covers.....I assume) the chart does not
get real specific as to the type of plastic....but does list fiberglass separately.

I agree with you on the 8115....it is a little pricey to use as filler.

I suggested the epoxy primer because your '72 grilles are FRP while your body
is SMC. If the fillers you have available to you are not compatible with both...
the primer would enable you to get around this issue.

YES.....body filler can be applied directly to the glass as long as it is compatible with that type of glass.
 
I have never used any IVIPAST 66 so I had to do a little searching.
http://www.hex.co.uk/tds/ppgcar/A242A652A722A655A656A659A661Stopper.pdf

According to PPGs link above the 66 is NOT to be used directly over fiberglass.
It is a plastics only filler (like in bumper covers.....I assume) the chart does not
get real specific as to the type of plastic....but does list fiberglass separately.

I agree with you on the 8115....it is a little pricey to use as filler.

I suggested the epoxy primer because your '72 grilles are FRP while your body
is SMC. If the fillers you have available to you are not compatible with both...
the primer would enable you to get around this issue.

YES.....body filler can be applied directly to the glass as long as it is compatible with that type of glass.
Thanks for the pdf file John, I couldn't find anything like that on the net, mind you, I didn't look real hard after the local panel beater recommended that filler to me for use over fiberglass AND the guy in the shop that sells the damn stuff. I phoned the shop boss today and told him that one of his people had sold me the wrong stuff and he said he'd swap it over for me. Too bad I already laid a layer of it on my bumper!! Digging it out will keep me busy tomorrow I guess...

Gotcha on the primer for the grilles, although I'll probably use my 8115 for there - I think I bought myself enough to fill the join lines on the front and rear bumpers and to graft in the egg crates and repair the rear quarters. If I have to use some epoxy primer over the panels, will ordinary body filler be ok to use then?
 
If I have to use some epoxy primer over the panels, will ordinary body filler be ok to use then?

I don't see any reason why you can't......But then I can't speak for "every"
epoxy primer out there......especially what you may have at your disposal
there in Sandland. Always check with the manufacturer.....as far as PPGs DP
line it is a defiant....YES.
 
If I have to use some epoxy primer over the panels, will ordinary body filler be ok to use then?

I don't see any reason why you can't......But then I can't speak for "every"
epoxy primer out there......especially what you may have at your disposal
there in Sandland. Always check with the manufacturer.....as far as PPGs DP
line it is a defiant....YES.
I went back into the shop yesterday John and I met their "chief paint technician" and he is damn good, he actually knows his stuff. I asked him about their epoxy primer and told him that I would be going over SMC and FRP and that I would be putting body filler over the top etc and he knew what I was talking about. They have a full range of PPG stuff in there and he handed over a couple of charts about primers and their uses. He also gave me the chart that you posted as that pdf file about the fillers!
 
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Looking ok so far...

I got the filler knocked back today. It still needs spray and spot putty but I gave it a quick rattle can squirt of flat black just to see how it was looking. I reckon it looks ok so far...

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35498b04cc320ea.jpg
 
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Very nice job. When you started this I was curious how it would turn out. It looks like it could have come from the factory like that. To me that is the only way to do a mod. :drink:
 
Thanks guys. In all probability, no one will even notice that on the back of my Vette, but that's sort of what I was going for - to make it look factory and "nothing special" :thumbs:
 
Thanks mate. Now that the bumper's done, I need to start hacking into my front guards and get the egg crate louvers grafted in there :thumbs:

Aint' that funny, that silly cut out....from Wade to Wayne......scrap on the back lot to looking beautiful, even IF i'ts just a mold....

:crap: can I get you to do MY car????

:D:friends:
 
Dang Wayne,that looks awesome,you did a hell of a job with that project,cant wait to see it installed and painted.

Very nice :thumbs:
 
All 4 holes? Or are you asking which ones we like best?

Or are those by the tag pocket back up lamps????

I like those tail lamps.
 
Before I bolt my new bumper on, should I put exhaust cutouts in it? Here's a photochop of what it would look like...
3549e0e0e98de3b.jpg

NOT BAD for a guy out in BFE....with nothing around but a computer....

is that the original piece I sent?? or is it a casting...somehow off it???

U do such NICE work,....I got this mess on my hands...

:devil::clobbered:
 
All 4 holes? Or are you asking which ones we like best?

Or are those by the tag pocket back up lamps????

I like those tail lamps.
The ones by the tag pocket are (going to be) backup lamps. The tail lights are from http://www.superbrightleds.com/truck_lights.htm.

Anyway, I've had a change of heart - someone kindly pointed out that I don't need exhaust cutouts with side pipes!


NOT BAD for a guy out in BFE....with nothing around but a computer....

is that the original piece I sent?? or is it a casting...somehow off it???

U do such NICE work,....I got this mess on my hands...

:devil::clobbered:
No, I took a mould off the piece you sent me Gene - scroll back and read through this thread again mate, got some pics there.

Oh, what's BFE?
 
All 4 holes? Or are you asking which ones we like best?

Or are those by the tag pocket back up lamps????

I like those tail lamps.
The ones by the tag pocket are (going to be) backup lamps. The tail lights are from http://www.superbrightleds.com/truck_lights.htm.

Anyway, I've had a change of heart - someone kindly pointed out that I don't need exhaust cutouts with side pipes!


NOT BAD for a guy out in BFE....with nothing around but a computer....

is that the original piece I sent?? or is it a casting...somehow off it???

U do such NICE work,....I got this mess on my hands...

:devil::clobbered:
No, I took a mould off the piece you sent me Gene - scroll back and read through this thread again mate, got some pics there.

Oh, what's BFE?

Bum **** Egypt.....another term for boonies, way out in the country, desert, plains...LOST in other words.....old VERY old slang....

OH, I forgot, that's right, I remember now...that is nice work man,

you got mucho more patience than I have...

:beer:
 
SMYDA and other body experts...

...I suggested the epoxy primer because your '72 grilles are FRP while your body is SMC. If the fillers you have available to you are not compatible with both...
the primer would enable you to get around this issue.

YES.....body filler can be applied directly to the glass as long as it is compatible with that type of glass.

With John's above statement in mind, I went out this afternoon to see how much of an area I'd need to prime to be able to use body filler. While poking around, I remembered chipping the paint when I cut along the fender. You can see the chips here:
3549c391c264af1.jpg


Anyway, I flicked at the edge of the paint chip, and a whole lot more looked "loose" so I grabbed a scraper and started lifting it off. I'm not real concerned as it was going in for paint at some stage anyway but after only a few minutes, I had achieved this:
354a50cf7a9fab3.jpg

354a50cf7b53ff1.jpg

The white colour looks like gel coat and underneath it is just fiberglass. If that's the original SMC that I can see, is that normal for factory paint to practically fall off?

OR...

Is it an aftermarket panel? GRP, FRP, whatever? Thinking that it might be a replacement panel, I dug out the piece I cut out of the front fender and took some pics of the "inside" of the panel:
354a50cf7c16f7e.jpg

354a50cf7cc6bba.jpg

354a50cf7d6ed7f.jpg

354a50cf7e0fa58.jpg

Now my question for the body experts. Does that look like SMC or plain old fiberglass?
 
Hand laid mat over gelcoat, probably polyester resin. Not even a chopper gun.

Nothing at all wrong with it. Just block the gelcoat staight and prime.

Gelcoat looks very shiney, not prepped with rough enough paper.
 
Thanks guys. Sorry to sound like a thicky but until I started messing with the body, I'd never heard of SMC, let alone know what it looked like.

I haven't looked yet but I think the other fender is the same although the underside of the hood looks different, so maybe it's actually SMC???

Oh well, normal fiberglass fenders will be a bit easier to finish off with the body filler being compatible to both halves of my modification :lol:
 
I had a look at the driver's side front fender this afternoon. I didn't actually remove any paint but from what I can see of the inside of the fender, it looks to be the same as the passenger side. I carried on stripping the paint off the passenger fender and was looking at the rear edge where it meets the door and saw a flaky edge on the door paint - had a poke at it and...
354a52131493f8d.jpg

354a521315966a1.jpg

354a52131643695.jpg

It only took minutes to strip all that paint off. Once I got a scraper under it, it basically fell away. There's a couple of shiny areas where you see the **** on the ground reflected in it! The only areas the paint seems to be stuck ok is where ot looks like red oxide primer underneath. I've had to use a razor blade on those bits - got a few nicks but better than having all that **** on the car.

Anyway, I haven't looked hard at the door but is it safe to assume that it's not SMC either?

I examined the piece I cut out of the hood and I assume it is SMC. I scraped some of the paint away here:
354a521316e218d.jpg

Underside:
354a5213178f193.jpg
354a5213182fe19.jpg

Is it SMC?
 
Yes, your 82 has the later style panels what the C4s have too. It's a lot more resin and less fibers. There's a lot of confusion with SMC and what not, if you classify the early C3 stuff a SMC, this is not it. This is the same stuff as on the C4s. Your hood and doors are made from that. Nothing except epoxy will stick to it. I did a test many moons ago, the regular stuff just peels off.
 
So the door and fender are original? I assume I need to prime the whole lot with epoxy?

One question though, if they're original panels, why did the paint peel off so easy?
 
Epoxy primer is very good stuff, PPG DP epoxy is one of the best but a little expensive...
I think Marck meant epoxy resin instead of polyester, standard Bondo type resin will not stick to SMC.
 
Epoxy primer is very good stuff, PPG DP epoxy is one of the best but a little expensive...
I think Marck meant epoxy resin instead of polyester, standard Bondo type resin will not stick to SMC.

Someone suggested using PPG DP primer to prime over the areas I've modified before using the body filler - the fenders and hood where I've grafted fiberglass onto the SMC. The filler I'm using is PPG A661: P.E. Stopper is a conventional 2 component polyester filler that offers quick drying and easy clog-free sanding. P.E. Stopper is suitable for use over bare steel, fibreglass, GRP and other primed or painted surfaces.
From that, I assume I'll still have to squirt some of the epoxy primer over my repair areas before I lay anf of that filler on?

Do I have to go over all the exposed white surface with epoxy primer or is my PPG 2K stuff ok?
 
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I just mix my own filler from epoxy or build it up enough not to need any.

A lot of people get hung up on this SMC stuff.

All corvettes, except I think the first experimental display car (hand laid up) had panels made by press moulding. In the C2 era, the 2 halves were sprayed with release agent, then mat was laid in the mold, then closed and resin injected and heated to cure.
To speed up the cycling time and produce a more uniform panel, SMC (Sheet Molded Compound) was used, a few panels in the late C2's but almost exclusively in C3's and later. the chopped glass strands and resin and release agent (in the case of C3s) was manufactured between paper layers (sort of a soft clay like texture) and placed in the mold and press formed the same as the earlier panels. It was quicker, better quality and cheaper. The resin compounds and glass ratios were changed almost every year due to advances in composite chemistry.

Fast forward to 2003, the Dodge Viper was the first car to use carbon fiber that is SMC (which means it is also press molded) in the windshield frame and door supports and front fender mountings. The Viper used a modified vinyl ester matrix as a resin. Don't know what the new Corvettes use. It's really a moot point because epoxy is the best to use, period. BTW there are over 2800 variations of epoxy commercially available and more can still be specially formulated for a particular use.

General Dynamics uses SMC of carbon fiber and epoxy resin to make guideing tubes for aircraft born missles. There is NO release agent mixed into the resin, the mold halves are sprayed with PTFE for release.
So SMC doesn't mean that release agent is automatically in the mix.

Here are a couple of pics of a inner fender that is "press molded" and just happens to be "SMC" too. Note it is smooth on both sides. I scuff sanded them with 220 to prep for paint, easier off the car than installed.

Ones Side

SMCBack.jpg


Other Side

SMCFront.jpg


They are both very smooth on each side.

Compare that with your fender backside.

354a50cf7c16f7e.jpg

If you have any fiberglass boats in Sandland you can match your finish. Not press molded. Compare with the fingernail test.





To make this even more boring, a self proclaimed vette expert saw my DD at a store one day, and after saying "nice car" nit picked it apart for the duration of his lecture. He saw the inner fender that someone had cut out to get at the ac/heater box and told me that was a costly major repair that took a real expert like his buddy to replace the inner fender. I told him that the seller had given me the pieces. He said it was impossible to repair that way. :huh:
I just smiled and said Oh.

Here is the damage

Wheelwell.jpg


Here are the pieces stuck on with a/c duct foil tape (the heavy stuff, not Homey Depot junk). The engine side is not taper ground, so as to make a flush fit.

EngineSide.jpg


The wheel side has all the mating joints ground with 30 grit to a next to nothing taper.

WheelSideTaped.jpg


The foil tape holds these pieces well enough that I could mount the recovery bottle back in it's place and drive at highway speeds with no fear of it coming loose. The more layers you add the stronger it becomes. You must use a squeegee to stick it down well.
Once the wheel side is galssed and built up enough to be flush after sanding, then the other side will be "v" ground with the 30 untill touching the new glass in the center of the grind and built up to be flush. There should be no need for any kind of filler. Just grinding and sanding carefully from 80to about 220 and then some black paint.

Hope you can use the foil tape trick sometime, saves a lot of fussing around.

BTW, I really hate glass work, done too much of it and am over it.

















SMC
 
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