UAW wages to blame?

[big2bird]

Kind of reminds me of a time back in the '70's a company I worked for wanted to set up a booth at a computer convention downtown N.Y. Simple enough, no? We were advised that in order to do so, we had to have union trucks deliver the equipment, union guys unload the stuff, union electricians plug in the lights and equipment. Then when the convention was over...do it all over again, using only union workers. Jeez...no wonder the unions are in demise. Can't take a piss without a union worker holding your wiener.:suicide:

Yep, no exaggeration, $200 to plug a plug into a socket. No kidding.

That is a oversimplified. This is what I do for a living now. If you were to see and understand what is involved in that statement, you might think it a bargain.
(Lamps go in sockets, plugs go into receptacles)

Now, I have run my share of tradeshows around the country, and I can say with complete certainty that union shows are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

$200 to plug in a RECPICAL is not hyperbole.

Let me explain. At the Anaheim Convention center, to install ONE CIRCUIT,
I have to go into the catwalk, find 5 x10' 4/0 jumpers, plug in a 200 amp feeder panel into the switch gear, and test it. Then, lay out a 5 conductor "6 cord to a branch circuit panel, then test it. THEN, I have to take a scissor lift, drop a 100' 5 conductor #12 to the booth line, then go to the floor and install a booth stringer, then test it.
NOW, that price includes install, rental of all equipment, standby labor during the show, ELECTRCITY purchased from the convention center, and REMOVAL after the show.
$200 still sound cheap? You try and do it for that.
I'ts NOT just plugging in a box.

 

[Jsup]

Let me explain. At the Anaheim Convention center, to install ONE CIRCUIT,
I have to go into the catwalk, find 5 x10' 4/0 jumpers, plug in a 200 amp feeder panel into the switch gear, and test it. Then, lay out a 5 conductor "6 cord to a branch circuit panel, then test it. THEN, I have to take a scissor lift, drop a 100' 5 conductor #12 to the booth line, then go to the floor and install a booth stringer, then test it.
NOW, that price includes install, rental of all equipment, standby labor during the show, ELECTRCITY purchased from the convention center, and REMOVAL after the show.
$200 still sound cheap? You try and do it for that.
I'ts NOT just plugging in a box.

Oh no, that's $750 in Anaheim, last time I was there in 2007.

The $200, per booth, is to take my booth lights and plug them into all that. Anaheim doesn't do that, the Javitz does, as do other venues.

 

[mrvette]

Yep, no exaggeration, $200 to plug a plug into a socket. No kidding.

That is a oversimplified. This is what I do for a living now. If you were to see and understand what is involved in that statement, you might think it a bargain.
(Lamps go in sockets, plugs go into receptacles)

Now, I have run my share of tradeshows around the country, and I can say with complete certainty that union shows are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

$200 to plug in a RECPICAL is not hyperbole.

Let me explain. At the Anaheim Convention center, to install ONE CIRCUIT,
I have to go into the catwalk, find 5 x10' 4/0 jumpers, plug in a 200 amp feeder panel into the switch gear, and test it. Then, lay out a 5 conductor "6 cord to a branch circuit panel, then test it. THEN, I have to take a scissor lift, drop a 100' 5 conductor #12 to the booth line, then go to the floor and install a booth stringer, then test it.
NOW, that price includes install, rental of all equipment, standby labor during the show, ELECTRCITY purchased from the convention center, and REMOVAL after the show.
$200 still sound cheap? You try and do it for that.
I'ts NOT just plugging in a box.

I hear you bird, no issue with your side .....but to Jsup there, NO I have not heard that story before, not that I recall anyway, but I have done trade shows from the showman's standpoint, seen the logistics, and know about NYC being so totally overpriced....so in fact my stab at it put a ~50% profit margin in there for who/what ever did the job.....and you gotta be kidding me that I was right on.....I maybe been around the horn a few times on a small boat, and know the compass, but to set that accurate a course to hit the harbor??? doubtful....you gotta be kidding.....

:surrender:

 

[big_G]

From 2003...http://www.buildingc3.com/doc.asp?id=2836

 

[Jsup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr15....microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7GPC

http://video.google.com/videosearch...sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#

You think this is nutcase conspiracy?



New: February 2003: corporation sues government over water at secret World Bank tribunal


Economy and Financial Affairs /Water & Oceans - Fri Feb 14 2003


The Bechtel Corporation was handed a powerful victory when a secretive trade court announced that it would not allow the public or media to participate in or even witness proceedings in which Bechtel is suing the people of Bolivia for $25 million.

Secretive World Bank Tribunal bans public and media participation in Bechtel lawsuit over access to water: citizens excluded from $25 million suit against Bolivia for company's failed water privatization scheme

Washington, DC- The Bechtel Corporation was handed a powerful victory last week, when a secretive trade court announced that it would not allow the public or media to participate in or even witness proceedings in which Bechtel is suing the people of Bolivia for $25 million. Aguas del Tunari, a subsidiary of the California-based engineering giant, is suing South America's poorest nation over the company's failed effort to take over the public water system of Bolivia's third largest city, Cochabamba.

In the late 1990s the World Bank forced Bolivia to privatize the public water system of its third-largest city, Cochabamba, by threatening to withhold debt relief and other development assistance. In 1999, in a process with just one bidder, Bechtel, the California-based engineering giant, was granted a 40-year lease to take over Cochabamba's water, through a subsidiary the corporation formed for just that purpose ("Aguas del Tunari").

Within weeks of taking over the water system, Aguas del Tunari imposed huge rate hikes on local water users. Families living on the local minimum wage of $60 per month were billed up to 25 percent of their monthly income. The rate hikes sparked massive citywide protests that the Bolivian government sought to end by declaring a state of martial law and deploying thousands of soldiers and police. More than a hundred people were injured and one 17-year-old boy was killed. In April 2000, as anti-Bechtel protests continued to grow, the company's managers abandoned the project.

Aguas del Tunari filed the legal action against Bolivia last November, demanding compensation of $25 million, a figure that represents far more than the company's investment in the few months it operated in Bolivia.

Although Bechtel is a U.S. corporation, its subsidiary recently established a presence in the Netherlands in order to make use of the treaty.

The rules in the Dutch-Bolivian treaty are similar to those in NAFTA and the proposed Free Trade Area of the Americas.


for full text see:
http://www.choike.org/nuevo_eng/informes/973.html


for more about Naomi Kline & 'The Shock Doctrine' see:
http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine/the-book

and:
http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

You like conspiracy's here's one. Not so sure what they have to do with the original post, but WTF we're on conspiracy now....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCUe61hmqsA[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amGK76g4xyk[/ame]

 

[JPhil]

So do you believe any of it? Even if you think only 1% of all the conspiracy theories have only 1% of truth to them at all, you should be scared. Or at least thoughtful.
To be honest, I enjoy the tantalization of many of them. I give most about a .5% rating, but my favorites I allow up to a 15 or 20% rating. That's still enough to make me one paranoid mofo.
I have not heard of 'Agenda 21' and 'Codex Alimentarius" but I will not deny the possibility of their existance-- or perhaps I should say, their 'agenda' (After all, the Mafia does not exist legally at all, does it?). I do believe flouridation is an 'issue' & Genetically Modified Crops are designed ONLY for corporate domination of the world. GMC I give a 98% rating as to the pure corporate evil of it. Monsanto dominates & terrorizes the local agrarian economy here.

 

[big2bird]

From 2003...http://www.buildingc3.com/doc.asp?id=2836

5 years later, I do not make that much.:crap:
When you compare it to a factory worker for example, that does get sick days, vacation days, personal days, and other benies that we do NOT get, we make just a tad more, and have a MUCH higher injury/death rate.:clobbered:
Apples and oranges.

 

[big2bird]

Let me explain. At the Anaheim Convention center, to install ONE CIRCUIT,
I have to go into the catwalk, find 5 x10' 4/0 jumpers, plug in a 200 amp feeder panel into the switch gear, and test it. Then, lay out a 5 conductor "6 cord to a branch circuit panel, then test it. THEN, I have to take a scissor lift, drop a 100' 5 conductor #12 to the booth line, then go to the floor and install a booth stringer, then test it.
NOW, that price includes install, rental of all equipment, standby labor during the show, ELECTRCITY purchased from the convention center, and REMOVAL after the show.
$200 still sound cheap? You try and do it for that.
I'ts NOT just plugging in a box.

Oh no, that's $750 in Anaheim, last time I was there in 2007.


The $200, per booth, is to take my booth lights and plug them into all that. Anaheim doesn't do that, the Javitz does, as do other venues.

Charges vary per show, length of show, labor involved, etc. The convention center also gets it's cut. You KNOW that trade show real estate is "Market Value."
PM me what show/vender you are. We may have even met.LOL

 

[SmokinBBC]

Maybe a little perspective on autoworkers that are non-union.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28214869/

 

[big2bird]

Maybe a little perspective on autoworkers that are non-union.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28214869/

I read that. Thank you. Two thoughts.
1)That last couple has a higher standard of living than me.
2)If it were not for the union, they would not be making what they do.

 

[Jsup]

Maybe a little perspective on autoworkers that are non-union.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28214869/

They are 100% right. Great article.

 

[Jsup]

Maybe a little perspective on autoworkers that are non-union.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28214869/

They are exactly right:

"Over here, we're taking days off without pay to keep the company going, but the unions for the Big Three aren't willing to do that," said Kathy Ward, 54, who has worked 27 years at the sprawling plant here. This year her pay has been cut $5,000 because of days off. "Everyone has to give a little in times like these."

The bailout efforts for Detroit's Big Three are laying bare long-held resentments between union and non-union workers, echoing North-South divisions as old as the Civil War.

The negotiations brought out some sharp contrasts. Some Southern Republican senators, led by Bob Corker of this state, pushed to cut the wages and benefits that Detroit's Big Three pay to a level consistent with what foreign automakers pay to nonunion workers at plants throughout the South, such as the Nissan plant here.

Ward's husband, Frank, who retired a few years ago from the Nissan plant, approves.

Corker "hit the nail on the head," he said. "It seems like the United Auto Workers would rather have people lose their jobs than give up a few dollars in hourly pay."

 

[big2bird]

Maybe a little perspective on autoworkers that are non-union.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28214869/

They are exactly right:

"Over here, we're taking days off without pay to keep the company going, but the unions for the Big Three aren't willing to do that," said Kathy Ward, 54, who has worked 27 years at the sprawling plant here. This year her pay has been cut $5,000 because of days off. "Everyone has to give a little in times like these."

The bailout efforts for Detroit's Big Three are laying bare long-held resentments between union and non-union workers, echoing North-South divisions as old as the Civil War.

The negotiations brought out some sharp contrasts. Some Southern Republican senators, led by Bob Corker of this state, pushed to cut the wages and benefits that Detroit's Big Three pay to a level consistent with what foreign automakers pay to nonunion workers at plants throughout the South, such as the Nissan plant here.

Ward's husband, Frank, who retired a few years ago from the Nissan plant, approves.

Corker "hit the nail on the head," he said. "It seems like the United Auto Workers would rather have people lose their jobs than give up a few dollars in hourly pay."

Corker wants to lower the wages in the north, where the cost of living is higher, to a level that is BIG MONEY in the south. That would just make all automakers move south.
I live in the OC. Property here is a MILLION dollars an acre. And, rightfully so, GM closed it's plants here long ago.
IF the answer is to move the big 3 to Florida, so be it. Detroit will be the next Pittsburg, and they will have to find a new dollar base.

 

[Jsup]

Maybe a little perspective on autoworkers that are non-union.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28214869/

They are exactly right:

"Over here, we're taking days off without pay to keep the company going, but the unions for the Big Three aren't willing to do that," said Kathy Ward, 54, who has worked 27 years at the sprawling plant here. This year her pay has been cut $5,000 because of days off. "Everyone has to give a little in times like these."

The bailout efforts for Detroit's Big Three are laying bare long-held resentments between union and non-union workers, echoing North-South divisions as old as the Civil War.

The negotiations brought out some sharp contrasts. Some Southern Republican senators, led by Bob Corker of this state, pushed to cut the wages and benefits that Detroit's Big Three pay to a level consistent with what foreign automakers pay to nonunion workers at plants throughout the South, such as the Nissan plant here.

Ward's husband, Frank, who retired a few years ago from the Nissan plant, approves.

Corker "hit the nail on the head," he said. "It seems like the United Auto Workers would rather have people lose their jobs than give up a few dollars in hourly pay."

Corker wants to lower the wages in the north, where the cost of living is higher, to a level that is BIG MONEY in the south. That would just make all automakers move south.
I live in the OC. Property here is a MILLION dollars an acre. And, rightfully so, GM closed it's plants here long ago.
IF the answer is to move the big 3 to Florida, so be it. Detroit will be the next Pittsburg, and they will have to find a new dollar base.

Hey, we agree completely. Now, group hug....just keep your hands where I can see them.

 

[big2bird]

Maybe a little perspective on autoworkers that are non-union.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28214869/

They are exactly right:

"Over here, we're taking days off without pay to keep the company going, but the unions for the Big Three aren't willing to do that," said Kathy Ward, 54, who has worked 27 years at the sprawling plant here. This year her pay has been cut $5,000 because of days off. "Everyone has to give a little in times like these."

The bailout efforts for Detroit's Big Three are laying bare long-held resentments between union and non-union workers, echoing North-South divisions as old as the Civil War.

The negotiations brought out some sharp contrasts. Some Southern Republican senators, led by Bob Corker of this state, pushed to cut the wages and benefits that Detroit's Big Three pay to a level consistent with what foreign automakers pay to nonunion workers at plants throughout the South, such as the Nissan plant here.

Ward's husband, Frank, who retired a few years ago from the Nissan plant, approves.

Corker "hit the nail on the head," he said. "It seems like the United Auto Workers would rather have people lose their jobs than give up a few dollars in hourly pay."

Corker wants to lower the wages in the north, where the cost of living is higher, to a level that is BIG MONEY in the south. That would just make all automakers move south.
I live in the OC. Property here is a MILLION dollars an acre. And, rightfully so, GM closed it's plants here long ago.
IF the answer is to move the big 3 to Florida, so be it. Detroit will be the next Pittsburg, and they will have to find a new dollar base.

Hey, we agree completely. Now, group hug....just keep your hands where I can see them.

Why stop there? Let's move them all to China, cheaper yet, and the south will fall too.

 

[DeeVeeEight]

Maybe a little perspective on autoworkers that are non-union.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28214869/

I read that. Thank you. Two thoughts.
1)That last couple has a higher standard of living than me.
2)If it were not for the union, they would not be making what they do.

My former welfare supported section 8 tenants have a higher standard of living than I do. The authorities will not let them live in sub-standard housing, but they will let them trash the housing that they are in. Friggin animals - go figure. I bailed out of that game.
When are we going to get the lazy ass welfare recipients off of our backs too?

 

[Jsup]

Why stop there? Let's move them all to China, cheaper yet, and the south will fall too.

I'm OK with that, why not?

 

[big2bird]

Why stop there? Let's move them all to China, cheaper yet, and the south will fall too.

I'm OK with that, why not?

In a world economy, transition will happen. However, if we export all the jobs overnight, just what will support our society? If you don't like welfare now, just imagine 200,000,000 people unemployed.
As in any arguement, the truith lies somewhere between the two sides of the coin.
Anyhow, this thread is so off track from where it started, it could just be called the "bitch thread from hell."
Can we retire this now, or start on paper/plastic?:drink:

 

[big2bird]

Just a footnote you might find funny. I love the "corporate mindset." Our company wants to cut back labor 20% for the next 5 years. I'm no math major, but that would mean in 5 years it will install itself. LOL:shocking:

 

[Jsup]

Why stop there? Let's move them all to China, cheaper yet, and the south will fall too.

I'm OK with that, why not?

In a world economy, transition will happen. However, if we export all the jobs overnight, just what will support our society? If you don't like welfare now, just imagine 200,000,000 people unemployed.
As in any arguement, the truith lies somewhere between the two sides of the coin.
Anyhow, this thread is so off track from where it started, it could just be called the "bitch thread from hell."
Can we retire this now, or start on paper/plastic?:drink:

That's OK, we're taking Japan's and Korea's economy down the tubes, they are building plants here, they will be dead soon.

 

[mrvette]

Why stop there? Let's move them all to China, cheaper yet, and the south will fall too.

I'm OK with that, why not?

In a world economy, transition will happen. However, if we export all the jobs overnight, just what will support our society? If you don't like welfare now, just imagine 200,000,000 people unemployed.
As in any arguement, the truith lies somewhere between the two sides of the coin.
Anyhow, this thread is so off track from where it started, it could just be called the "bitch thread from hell."
Can we retire this now, or start on paper/plastic?:drink:

That's OK, we're taking Japan's and Korea's economy down the tubes, they are building plants here, they will be dead soon.

Well, it is said that Japs took a dump with their economy some 12? years ago and have not pulled out yet.....so the move to do assy work here has cut their guy also....only so many engines and trannies they make there, and now they making them here too......

whole God damn thing fails to make much sense anymore.....

which is why I wonder that GM of all companies, built their new corporate monument to egos in DETROIT of all places...guess they didn't want to sell their Grosse Point homes.......or something.....

I would have paid good money as a GM exec to get **** OUTTA that frozen **** hole....but no.....

note that Fidelity money group is leaving LA and moving to Jax here, building #3 will be ready for HVAC and interior work, this spring they were doing the steel work.....supposed to be some 7? high rises....well what qualifies as a high rise here in Florida, anyway....it IS a sandbar afterall.....

:yahoo::chinese: