Body work help...

[saudivette]

Damn, this is all so confusing

Firstly, what's the "fingernail test"?

Looking at my fender panels, they certainly just look like a boat. The white finish looks like gel coat and the white finish on the door looks the same. There's some scratches up top of the fender and they're filled with what looks like ordinary body filler and it's certainly stuck there well. There's also some body filler behind the headlight - I can't imagine it would have left the factory like that, or did they?

Also, if they were factory panels, would there be that "red oxide" looking primer? The paint fell away in sheets except where that red **** is.

So far, all I AM sure of is:

• The fenders look like normal glass with a gel coat on the outside

• The door has an identical finish on the outside (white gel coat appearance)

• The hood is completely different and dead flat on both sides

Even if it is SMC, will 2K primer be ok going over it?

 

[Twin_Turbo]

The 82 hood and doors are certainly not the SMC like described above. it's a whole different animal, a lot more resin and hardly ay fibers. It's the same stuff as in the C4s. Some refer to it as SMC but some also refer to the early 70s as the introduction of SMC. Not the same thing. I don't know what the right name for this later stuff is but I had a damaged 82 hood that i decided to do some tests on. Bottom line, only epoxy will stick to it, nothing else.

My factory panels had a gray primer under it and the paint came off in large sheets when warmed up. I was done in a couple of hours. There is no gelcoat on these cars, never has been.

 

[saudivette]

I thought I'd thrown out the piece of fender I cut from the driver's side but I found it.
The confusion thus far:
Passenger front fender on the left, driver's fender in the middle, hood on the right...

 

[MYBAD79]

Hood and driver side fender look like press molded pieces, passenger side fender looks like hand laid fiberglass.

The safest way to go is to simply roughen it up with 180 or 220 grit and spray epoxy first, that way you KNOW the base is good.... high build 2K urethane primer will stick to the epoxy without additional sanding but you have to apply it within a few days (read the tech sheet) - most epoxy primers can be topcoated with basecoat within a few hours but many require 24hrs curing time before topcoating with high build primer.

 

[saudivette]

Hood and driver side fender look like press molded pieces, passenger side fender looks like hand laid fiberglass.

The safest way to go is to simply roughen it up with 180 or 220 grit and spray epoxy first, that way you KNOW the base is good.... high build 2K urethane primer will stick to the epoxy without additional sanding but you have to apply it within a few days (read the tech sheet) - most epoxy primers can be topcoated with basecoat within a few hours but many require 24hrs curing time before topcoating with high build primer.

I've wanted to try and avoid spraying the epoxy if I could because I'm a bit worried about the overspray and how long it'll stay wet enough to stick to other people's cars - I only have a car port to work in.

The other reason is that the epoxy has to be covered within a week (took me damn ages to find that out, even the guys in the shop that sold it to me didn't know!!) and with having to actually go to work and the weather sometimes forcing me inside, I'm not certain I could get all the body work done in a week. I don't want to spray the epoxy then have to go over it all again because a dust storm kicked up and I wasn't able to finish all the body work in a week.

Anyway, thanks for the input. I've got a much better idea about SMC/fiberglass etc. I'll post pics when I have anything worth posting :thumbs:

 

[MYBAD79]

Don't worry too much about the epoxy overspray - if you use a HVLP gun it'll be fine. I sprayed epoxy in my garage and if the gun is adjusted right there's almost no overspray.
If you don't topcoat it within a week you can sand the epoxy and apply another coat epoxy - you can sand months old epoxy and spray another coat epoxy.... no prob....

 

[saudivette]

The gun I have is a Binks Bullows 630. I don't know much about it and can't find much about it - it was given to me...

 

[MYBAD79]

No idea what gun that is (and I am no paint-expert) :lol:

I use a $30 Ebay HVLP gun for epoxy and urethane primer.... HarborFreight sells the same gun... usually between $25 and $40 depending on if it's on sale or not... good enough for primer :thumbs:

 

[saudivette]

The gun is brand new and I know Binks make good stuff so I'll give it a go. It's a gravity feed gun too...

 

[MYBAD79]

The gun is brand new and I know Binks make good stuff so I'll give it a go. It's a gravity feed gun too...

that's exactly why I would not use it for nasty epoxy and high build primer.... if you ruin a $30 China gun it won't hurt to throw it out.....

Primer is going to be sanded anyways...

 

[saudivette]

The gun is brand new and I know Binks make good stuff so I'll give it a go. It's a gravity feed gun too...

that's exactly why I would not use it for nasty epoxy and high build primer.... if you ruin a $30 China gun it won't hurt to throw it out.....

Primer is going to be sanded anyways...

Good point :lol:

 

[SMYDA]

Hey Wayne.... sorry for not responding earlier..... it has been an eventful week.
To make a long story short....I got body slammed last Sunday by my daughters
horse....WWE Style. Doc thinks I cracked a few ribs....I don't think it's that bad.
Will say..."ALL" my spills on the dirt bike combined, don't come close to this one.
I feel 100% better today.

About your Vette.....
Look at the inside of your front fenders where the fenders would meet the front
end surround (upper half of fender that circles hood) and see if there is a bonding
strip. Your rear quarter panels will have one one each side.as well.

Reason I mention this is, if there is not one on the front, I would say that
the entire front end has been replaced with a ONE piece nose. Which would
explain having FRP glass front fenders along with the gel coat.

 

[saudivette]

Hey Wayne.... sorry for not responding earlier..... it has been an eventful week.
To make a long story short....I got body slammed last Sunday by my daughters
horse....WWE Style. Doc thinks I cracked a few ribs....I don't think it's that bad.
Will say..."ALL" my spills on the dirt bike combined, don't come close to this one.
I feel 100% better today.

They are a big critter to be in the way of. Was it deliberate or did the horse not see you? I think horses are beautiful - when viewed from behind some sort of fence! I was an avid "learner" rider years ago until I was biffed off a 17 1/2 hand mare at full gallop - OUCH! Now I really enjoy feeding them a piece of carrot through a fence :lol:

About your Vette.....
Look at the inside of your front fenders where the fenders would meet the front
end surround (upper half of fender that circles hood) and see if there is a bonding
strip. Your rear quarter panels will have one one each side.as well.

Reason I mention this is, if there is not one on the front, I would say that
the entire front end has been replaced with a ONE piece nose. Which would
explain having FRP glass front fenders along with the gel coat.

I'll have a look there John but from the look of the three different pieces I've removed from the car, I reckon the hood and driver's fender are SMC. I'll be under there soon enough filling the join line on the bumper and bolting on the front spoiler.

One thing though. Where I grafted in the egg crate louver panel, I've been blocking down the join line. In a couple of spots, I can just see some fibers standing up (on the piece I grafted in). Will these be covered by epoxy primer?

I've still got to put some filler in there and do some more sanding so it's bound to get a little bit worse yet...

 

[SMYDA]

Was it deliberate or did the horse not see you? ..

Ours and the neighbors horses were out....they had knocked the electric fence down.
My wife and I were rounding them up. Bandit (Daughters horse) did not
want to cross the wire that was now lying on the ground. I finally get him
to step across with his front legs....at that moment he takes off....I let him
go....but his hind leg snags the wire....now he is dragging a 100'+ of wire at
full speed....I'm between him and the remainder of the wire......You Guessed
it.....before I knew what happened the wire caught my ankle and out my feet
went....I hit the ground so %$#@* hard every bone in my body rattled. After
a few visits to my chiropractor my back is OK....but I still have a real nasty
place on my ankle from the wire.

One thing though. Where I grafted in the egg crate louver panel, I've been blocking down the join line. In a couple of spots, I can just see some fibers standing up (on the piece I grafted in). Will these be covered by epoxy primer?

I would wipe a thin coat of the 8115 over those areas making sure the
strands are soaked well....just to be sure before applying the primer.

 

[mrvette]

Was it deliberate or did the horse not see you? ..

Ours and the neighbors horses were out....they had knocked the electric fence down.
My wife and I were rounding them up. Bandit (Daughters horse) did not
want to cross the wire that was now lying on the ground. I finally get him
to step across with his front legs....at that moment he takes off....I let him
go....but his hind leg snags the wire....now he is dragging a 100'+ of wire at
full speed....I'm between him and the remainder of the wire......You Guessed
it.....before I knew what happened the wire caught my ankle and out my feet
went....I hit the ground so %$#@* hard every bone in my body rattled. After
a few visits to my chiropractor my back is OK....but I still have a real nasty
place on my ankle from the wire.

One thing though. Where I grafted in the egg crate louver panel, I've been blocking down the join line. In a couple of spots, I can just see some fibers standing up (on the piece I grafted in). Will these be covered by epoxy primer?

I would wipe a thin coat of the 8115 over those areas making sure the
strands are soaked well....just to be sure before applying the primer.

I have been on horseback maybe 3-4x in my life....nervous as a whore in church, methinks the horses knew it too, and took it easy on my ass......
well trained rental outfits....

I remember my daughter doing some of that ****, years ago....little kid, I was sweating bullets, but nothing happened.....again....commercial riding academy saved the day, I suppose....

:goodnight::beer: feel better, that's a order....damnit....

:flash:

 

[saudivette]

Was it deliberate or did the horse not see you? ..

Ours and the neighbors horses were out....they had knocked the electric fence down.
My wife and I were rounding them up. Bandit (Daughters horse) did not
want to cross the wire that was now lying on the ground. I finally get him
to step across with his front legs....at that moment he takes off....I let him
go....but his hind leg snags the wire....now he is dragging a 100'+ of wire at
full speed....I'm between him and the remainder of the wire......You Guessed
it.....before I knew what happened the wire caught my ankle and out my feet
went....I hit the ground so %$#@* hard every bone in my body rattled. After
a few visits to my chiropractor my back is OK....but I still have a real nasty
place on my ankle from the wire.

Serious OUCH mate, luck you didn't break anything though. A few days off work no doubt? I take it the horse was ok once it had calmed down?

One thing though. Where I grafted in the egg crate louver panel, I've been blocking down the join line. In a couple of spots, I can just see some fibers standing up (on the piece I grafted in). Will these be covered by epoxy primer?

I would wipe a thin coat of the 8115 over those areas making sure the
strands are soaked well....just to be sure before applying the primer.

Is that to make the strands lay flat? I found some epoxy paste today that is equal part A & B mix is compatible with all sorts of stuff. Could I run something like that over the fibers? It's just that I can't buy the 8115 out here and I still need to glue the front bumper and spoiler on yet with what I have left. No problem with using something like that as a filler too is there?

 

[saudivette]

I started taking the front bumper cover off today. Isn't that fun?

NOT!!

 

[saudivette]

This is rapidly turning to **** :cussing:

 

[010752]

This is rapidly turning to **** :cussing:

What's the problem?

 

[MYBAD79]

What's the problem?

yup.... that's what it looks like when you remove the front bumper .....

 

[saudivette]

This is rapidly turning to **** :cussing:

What's the problem?

I think the car has been in a prang before and repaired with replacement panels. Then I think it's been pranged again and those replacement panels have been repaired (read filled).

I've removed **** loads of filler that didn't need to be there. When they'd put the nose cone on, it obviously didn't line up properly with the fenders so (on the passenger side anyway) they built up a nice tapered slab of filler on the fender so it met the nose profile!

When I put my rear bumper on, it didn't line up real well either so I built up the inside with layers of glass then just filed the outside down to the correct profile. Pretty simple. It would have been just as easy to do the same thing to the nose. Before I refit the nose, that's what I will be doing - I should be able to get a nice join with minimal filler.

The passenger door skin is a replacement, the passenger front fender's a replacement and the front panel's a replacement and although I can't see a join anywhere to tell if it's a once piece front or not. The nose cone is also a glass replacement.

The forward part of the driver's front fender is definitely glass (like the passenger side) but the lower piece I removed from the rear of the front fender (for the egg crate) looks like SMC.

All very confusing and hard to work out what's been done and what they've used. Far, far more work than I thought I was going to have to do.

Tough **** I spose :lol:

 

[saudivette]

Brief update and a question. I have the nose cone almost completely stripped back to the gel coat (it's an after market piece) and I've found some fine cracks in the gel coat. It doesn't look like the glass underneath has crack, just the gel coat.

Q. Do I just leave the cracks and spray the epoxy primer over them or do I somehow repair the cracks?

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Sand off the gelcoat and start from there, any cracks you spray over will sink in later and show.

 

[saudivette]

Ok, ta :thumbs:

 

[kwplot34]

How about some pic's of the wifey with the car,it will definitely look better :bounce:

 

[saudivette]

How about some pic's of the wifey with the car,it will definitely look better :bounce:

We were only talking about that a couple of days ago Kev. Fingers crossed we'll take some soon... :thumbs:

 

[saudivette]

I've been tinkering with the body work when I can. I've been on late shift the last 3 weeks but I've spent a good chunk of time, every other day and the damn dentist! Crikey, aren't root canals FUN!

Busy for a while yesterday but it was a horrible day anyway with another dust storm. It was just as ****** today too...

Anyway, after posting about the cracks in the gel coat, I tried rubbing it back but the cracks were there where the fiberglass had delaminated a bit from (I assume) impact damage with rocks or a kerb etc.


I used my Dremel with a rotary burr in it and ground out the cracks (into the glass).


I found some expoxy bond/seal/fill paste and filled the ground out cracks with it, rather than just body filler. This stuff shouldn't shrink either.


I was all set to brave the dust storm today and wear a dust mask when Christine said it was ok for me to bring the parts into the house!!

 

[BigBlockTank]

[, I'll be trimming it down a lot closer to the letters.

However, I DO like your idea of making a mold of it. It might be difficult getting in the letters properly though :crap:

If you make a mold of it, to get the letters to come out crisp and clean, use some micro-ballons or chopped fiberglass in a resin mix. Put the ballons or chopped F/glass in the resin, mix, add catylist, mix, get busy. If you use a small brush to "pack" the mixture around the letters, trying hard not to get any air bubbles, it should be OK. When that resin hardens, put at least 2 thin layers of cloth over the whole script thing, then proceed with the rest of your lay-up. I've done it, so I hope it works for you.
If you can't find chopped fiberglass or micro-ballons, send a PM with address and I'll send it to you, no sweat, I'm around that stuff all the time, everyday at my job, the boneyard!!!!

BBTank

 

[saudivette]

Thanks mate but I already molded it and it came out pretty sweet. I made a mold off the urethane original, then made my "insert" off that :thumbs:

 

[010752]

Gelcoat is very brittle and prone to cracking.
Yours looks pretty thick.