Plastic Fantastic 2

SuperBuickGuy · Aug 22, 2021

the tl;dr is I think the mid-plate is cracked... but I'm going to run it
so
they say you should pull the main shaft out to pull the midplate....
no, you don't

the came a gasket search.edited I'm not convinced the rebuilder made a mistake - granted, the gasket he used was leaking - but still, there's probably a crack here somewhere

more gasket fun

somewhere on here

see the dirty blank spaces? those were both sealed and clean 300 miles ago

then there was the moment Luigi was laying at my feet while I dropped a gasket sealant brush on him.... oops

replaced the bushings while I was at it

back in and leaking.... we won't talk about how it's sealed now

in other news, I can now use my laptop to program the Sniper

and in still other news

SuperBuickGuy · Aug 23, 2021

Thinking out loud.

I could replace the midplate, but if you look closely at the case, you'll see the counter-shaft bore is oblong - which means a new case too. Believe it or not, these are very popular and parts are available, new, for them... including upgrades.

I'm pretty sure my Right Stuff tempenant (or permanary?) fix will hold until winter but the writing is on the wall... so what to chose - so far these seem to be the choices.

1) Doug Nash 5 speed ($3600)
2) New Super t-10 with upgrades ($2500)
3) fix and pray ($1000)
4) TKX at $3500
5) T56 - $2500 (found one for that with all the upgrades)

1) - complaints about clunky and a pain when cold
2) - highest rating I've found is 325 ft lbs -though rumor is they can handle more....
3) cheapest - and it leaves me with a spare or sellable trans
4) they can't seem to come up with a price, but I think if I do this one, I'll spend the 'extra' and get the one rated to 900 ft. lbs (stock is 600)
5) requires replacement of my bellhousing so could be the most expensive (and could require hydraulic clutch change)..

rtj · Aug 23, 2021

Auto gear m22 or m23 were around 2200-2500 and good to approx 700 hp. Lots of ratios. Not sure availability or price any more.

4-16-2021 price update.
https://www.autogear.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/AGE_PRICE_SHEET_41921.pdf

In 2006 the m22 was around $1900.

SuperBuickGuy · Aug 23, 2021

rtj said:
Auto gear m22 or m23 were around 2200-2500 and good to approx 700 hp. Lots of ratios. Not sure availability or price any more.

$2570 for just the gear set - cases are unavailable at this time.

rtj · Aug 23, 2021

AGE direct looks like $2240. That is a complete m22 with a super case.

I’ve had one close to 14 years. No issues.

M23 is their new design.

Hopefully their product is still good, but might want to check other forums.

rtj · Aug 23, 2021

This is a bit old, but shows a middleman price.

https://midwestmuncie.com/product/new-auto-gearsuper-case-muncie-m22-rock-crusher/

There are some reviews.

SuperBuickGuy · Aug 24, 2021

so a bit about P2
Great Stuff has become my go-to stuff for sealing impossible leaks... it's at it again with my trans

time to attach the console cover plate better

bracket built

installed

Paul's car is back on the road.... needs an alignment but a bit of muffling for the summer so he can enjoy it until it gets rotten weather.... and now it's safe to drive
the old wheels were held on with the wrong lug nuts so it destroyed all of them
but new wheels

need to do some altitude adjustment but they look really good

Luigi felt his advice was necessary

phantomjock · Aug 24, 2021

This had me scratching my head:

Great Stuff has become my go-to stuff for sealing impossible leaks... it's at it again with my trans

Thought that stuff is FOAM. Dropped into the chandelery to get some screws etc - there it was... Permatex Right Stuff.
Does it really go off in a minute? Would it be a suitable replacement for "blue" on the corners of my oil pan gasket on install?

If/When I get this boat sold (tomorrow?) full time on Elvira!

Cheers - Jim

SuperBuickGuy · Aug 25, 2021

phantomjock said:
This had me scratching my head:

Great Stuff has become my go-to stuff for sealing impossible leaks... it's at it again with my trans

Click to expand...

Thought that stuff is FOAM. Dropped into the chandelery to get some screws etc - there it was... Permatex Right Stuff.
Does it really go off in a minute? Would it be a suitable replacement for "blue" on the corners of my oil pan gasket on install?

If/When I get this boat sold (tomorrow?) full time on Elvira!

Cheers - Jim

sorry, this stuff
https://www.permatex.com/products/g...nce-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker-4/?locale=en_us

it doesn't shift well at all if the rods come off

the 2nd lever was backwards (offset out, not in)

and this hints what's next...

I drove it today and had all sorts of trouble with the fender getting into the tire...since I'm playing with the springs, I'll pull them out and set the camber/castor for racing at ride height.... in other news, I may have new dual adjustable shocks coming...

SuperBuickGuy · Aug 27, 2021

centering device engaged

you knew you saw it somewhere before.... works perfect

so it's set with a good baseline

Front -2 degrees, 1/16 toe in
rear -1.1 degrees 1/32 toe inedited
editedit's a good start point, still need to balance the car on scales, but that'll happen later

SuperBuickGuy · Aug 27, 2021

drove it today.... I may have to set compression to a stiffer setting. It also can feel loose in the rear (twitchy?) to the point I checked all the mount and adjustment points to see if something came loose...

learnin' any input would be great.

phantomjock · Aug 29, 2021

Need a little more detail...

Loose [in rear]:

Straight line - Instability
One wheel bump
Hard Braking
Sloppy/slow to take a set in corner
Good turn-In, then washes out
and, more

These are all Problem>Solution based entries in Carroll Smith's Engineer in your Pocket

It's about $20 from A-Z and pdfs can be found online too.
I'll look up a few possible answers while you wait..

It's gonna rain here (Ida)

Cheers - Jim

SuperBuickGuy · Aug 29, 2021

phantomjock said:
Need a little more detail...

Loose [in rear]:

Straight line - Instability

One wheel bump

Hard Braking

Sloppy/slow to take a set in corner

Good turn-In, then washes out

and, more

These are all Problem>Solution based entries in Carroll Smith's Engineer in your Pocket

It's about $20 from A-Z and pdfs can be found online too.
I'll look up a few possible answers while you wait..

It's gonna rain here (Ida)

Cheers - Jim

*check tightness of all bolts.... also, get full instructions. the QA1 steering adjust rod - it goes to a bolt that threads into the knuckle. They provide 1 washer but don't say which side it belongs - it goes on the inside or, the opposite of the way I'll install it every first time..... :clobbered:

Also need to revisit the spring settings up front, back to a bit of a rub under light, right turn....

and rotated the shock adjust to 9 (out of 11)... seems to handle well, so we will see.... I have Jeep work to do next then I can focus back on this

bobs77vet · Aug 30, 2021

SuperBuickGuy said:
drove it today.... I may have to set compression to a stiffer setting. It also can feel loose in the rear (twitchy?) to the point I checked all the mount and adjustment points to see if something came loose...

learnin' any input would be great.

that sounds like a rear alignment issue. when it travels up and down there is no jerky movements is there? are you using poly bushings in the trailing arms?

I read once that the poly bushings in the trailing arms actually impact the alignment since they dont compress at all during there range of travel

SuperBuickGuy · Aug 30, 2021

bobs77vet said:
SuperBuickGuy said:

drove it today.... I may have to set compression to a stiffer setting. It also can feel loose in the rear (twitchy?) to the point I checked all the mount and adjustment points to see if something came loose...

learnin' any input would be great.

Click to expand...

that sounds like a rear alignment issue. when it travels up and down there is no jerky movements is there? are you using poly bushings in the trailing arms?

I read once that the poly bushings in the trailing arms actually impact the alignment since they dont compress at all during there range of travel

washer placed on the wrong side was the issue this time. Drove it yesterday and it handled fine - granted, there was no hooning but no wiggle either.

SuperBuickGuy · Sep 11, 2021

would handling improve, stay the same, or be worse if I swapped to 18x10 and 18x12 for my C3 .... right now it's 18x9.5 and 19x12

phantomjock · Sep 12, 2021

I'll take a stab at it - but this is just cursory. I found a couple of SAE articles - but not a member - so didn't download them.

I have "invested" in a square setup. The wheels are 15x10, the tires are Pirelli P-Zero (275/695/15). I specifically went to a square setup as it will (should) give neutral handle - from a wheel and tire input. All other "habits" (good or bad) will be from the chassis and suspension setup. So, my choice is made. As I have no time in the car yet, I can't comment. I expect I'll keep it square as I can move wheel/tires front to rear and get another session or two out of them. My testing plan is to get the car done and run some sessions without the body, and sort chassis and suspension (Exo-Vette). Then, add the body and aero and see what works/doesn't.

Back to your Question:
Your setup is already staggered. With bigger rear tires than front - you gain traction from the rear - great on corner exit and the rush down the straight. But, you could get loose with too much power. Your alternative retains the stagger setup, so I can imagine (guess) the handling may be similar, barring any change in ride height. I did a quick run of the wheel diameters and found little to no change in the roll center between 18 and 19 inches - note I kept the same tire width 275/45 on each run. I'll send you a copy of the excel spreadsheet I used. You can play with it and see what happens - it just one axle at a time - not a full car analysis.

I wonder if any iRacing gamers might have any inputs - so to speak? Know any?

Cheers - Jim

SuperBuickGuy · Sep 13, 2021

Well, I did it.edited didn't buy a kit because I don't care about my floor AND the driveshaft wouldn't work anyway....edited

I got the TKX with the 2.87 first gear and .68 overdrive. that does mean I need to do something about the race RedZone lifters - but I think I have a plan - I'll call tomorrow to double check but I think I can get the rebuilt to the street spec (not the race spec which is causing my lower oil pressure at idle). While this won't be a DD it might actually be capable of driving to autox next year.

In that vein, Oct 11 is the last of the season for us, then I'll start getting it ready for Las Vegas Optima next year. Just wheels - and I think I have a pretty good idea of what I can do - C5 Z06 fronts, C6 GS rears.... thus my question about wheels and square, I can only get an 18" wheel - but I'll go ahead and step up to 200 tw tires for next year....

In that vein, I'm driving to SEMA (mostly because I can) this year, so I may try to get there a couple days early and get some track training the day before SEMA starts....

SuperBuickGuy · Sep 17, 2021

pretty distraction

box opened

SuperBuickGuy · Sep 18, 2021

Forgestar F14

opinions? watch out for....?

I may have found a reasonable deal on take offs - 18" wheels, which means different rear tires .... but I'll probably simply buy all 4....

bazza6977 · Oct 13, 2021

SuperBuickGuy said:
1 'down' 3 to go... one thing I did realize is I'll not be gluing the door post in place... where the skin is level with the flare has quite a gap in the middle of the door/flare.... ah well, fiberglass makes a good gap filler

I'm at this point with my flares from the same place , I have the same problem with a gap in the middle , by gap I mean its sitting out from the door pillar , about 1/4 of an inch on passenger side and wider on the drivers side . If I push hard it will close in , but it takes too much force and I think there could be problems later . I too have an aftermarket new tail light panel(not CIC) so lining up all 3 to fit well in the back leaves me with this . The top part of my flare panels are just overhanging the door gap as well , but its seems the only way at this point .I haven't glued anything yet.

Just interested in seeing what you ended up doing to get yours on.

SuperBuickGuy · Oct 14, 2021

bazza6977 said:
SuperBuickGuy said:

1 'down' 3 to go... one thing I did realize is I'll not be gluing the door post in place... where the skin is level with the flare has quite a gap in the middle of the door/flare.... ah well, fiberglass makes a good gap filler

Click to expand...

I'm at this point with my flares from the same place , I have the same problem with a gap in the middle , by gap I mean its sitting out from the door pillar , about 1/4 of an inch on passenger side and wider on the drivers side . If I push hard it will close in , but it takes too much force and I think there could be problems later . I too have an aftermarket new tail light panel(not CIC) so lining up all 3 to fit well in the back leaves me with this . The top part of my flare panels are just overhanging the door gap as well , but its seems the only way at this point .I haven't glued anything yet.

Just interested in seeing what you ended up doing to get yours on.

it wasn't easy. Do you have the wheels you plan on running on the car? everything lines up off that - because the flares are pretty thin, you can use heat to get it to relax enough to move. Outside of that, I had to cut the flare from the rest of the fender and move it forward on the front to get everything to line up. If you're having too much trouble getting the curve right, you may have to section the flare to get it right..... also, contacting Josh at CIC for tips is available.... while I have some annoyance at my situation, I think he does his best and is quite helpful

bazza6977 · Oct 15, 2021

SuperBuickGuy said:
it wasn't easy. Do you have the wheels you plan on running on the car? everything lines up off that - because the flares are pretty thin, you can use heat to get it to relax enough to move. Outside of that, I had to cut the flare from the rest of the fender and move it forward on the front to get everything to line up. If you're having too much trouble getting the curve right, you may have to section the flare to get it right..... also, contacting Josh at CIC for tips is available.... while I have some annoyance at my situation, I think he does his best and is quite helpful

Well , I have the rear tyres and a device called a "wheel fit " which is an adjustable bracket which clamps onto the tyre and is bolted to the hub , but is adjustable . (so you can get the right backspace and offset you need ). I haven't got wheels yet as I still have to do this to the front.

Anyway the tyres fit really nice on the back as is. Only worry for me is suspension travel (settle) between now and when its all back together .My suspension is unloaded now so I set it at full low (transverse spring at rear ) I have a heavy rated new one coming from Vansteel soon , I got it shortened and its supposed to be about 480lb . Motor ,g/box ,doors (loaded) , empty fuel tank are on the car now.

I tried a heat gun on the offcuts , but I think I overdone it in a too small an area . It just fractured everything as I tried to bend . I will play around a bit with that again on some wider off cuts . Thanks for the advice .

SuperBuickGuy · Oct 15, 2021

bazza6977 said:
SuperBuickGuy said:

it wasn't easy. Do you have the wheels you plan on running on the car? everything lines up off that - because the flares are pretty thin, you can use heat to get it to relax enough to move. Outside of that, I had to cut the flare from the rest of the fender and move it forward on the front to get everything to line up. If you're having too much trouble getting the curve right, you may have to section the flare to get it right..... also, contacting Josh at CIC for tips is available.... while I have some annoyance at my situation, I think he does his best and is quite helpful

Click to expand...

Well , I have the rear tyres and a device called a "wheel fit " which is an adjustable bracket which clamps onto the tyre and is bolted to the hub , but is adjustable . (so you can get the right backspace and offset you need ). I haven't got wheels yet as I still have to do this to the front.

Anyway the tyres fit really nice on the back as is. Only worry for me is suspension travel (settle) between now and when its all back together .My suspension is unloaded now so I set it at full low (transverse spring at rear ) I have a heavy rated new one coming from Vansteel soon , I got it shortened and its supposed to be about 480lb . Motor ,g/box ,doors (loaded) , empty fuel tank are on the car now.

I tried a heat gun on the offcuts , but I think I overdone it in a too small an area . It just fractured everything as I tried to bend . I will play around a bit with that again on some wider off cuts . Thanks for the advice .

Fiberglass (or glass for that matter) never stops moving, granted, it's slow - but heat and time does let gravity affect it. I'm not sure I'd use a heat gun, I used a radiant heat dish and let it 'cook' for awhile.... probably never got above 100* but it did move.

but keep in mind, I didn't have to move it much, I was more concerned that it relaxed into the shape I screwed it into.... I use sheet metal zip screws to hold it in place then aim my radiant heat dishes at them for a day. Once 'done' I could remove the screws and it'd hold its shape.

bazza6977 · Oct 17, 2021

SuperBuickGuy said:
bazza6977 said:

SuperBuickGuy said:

it wasn't easy. Do you have the wheels you plan on running on the car? everything lines up off that - because the flares are pretty thin, you can use heat to get it to relax enough to move. Outside of that, I had to cut the flare from the rest of the fender and move it forward on the front to get everything to line up. If you're having too much trouble getting the curve right, you may have to section the flare to get it right..... also, contacting Josh at CIC for tips is available.... while I have some annoyance at my situation, I think he does his best and is quite helpful

Click to expand...

Well , I have the rear tyres and a device called a "wheel fit " which is an adjustable bracket which clamps onto the tyre and is bolted to the hub , but is adjustable . (so you can get the right backspace and offset you need ). I haven't got wheels yet as I still have to do this to the front.

Anyway the tyres fit really nice on the back as is. Only worry for me is suspension travel (settle) between now and when its all back together .My suspension is unloaded now so I set it at full low (transverse spring at rear ) I have a heavy rated new one coming from Vansteel soon , I got it shortened and its supposed to be about 480lb . Motor ,g/box ,doors (loaded) , empty fuel tank are on the car now.

I tried a heat gun on the offcuts , but I think I overdone it in a too small an area . It just fractured everything as I tried to bend . I will play around a bit with that again on some wider off cuts . Thanks for the advice .

Click to expand...

Fiberglass (or glass for that matter) never stops moving, granted, it's slow - but heat and time does let gravity affect it. I'm not sure I'd use a heat gun, I used a radiant heat dish and let it 'cook' for awhile.... probably never got above 100* but it did move.

but keep in mind, I didn't have to move it much, I was more concerned that it relaxed into the shape I screwed it into.... I use sheet metal zip screws to hold it in place then aim my radiant heat dishes at them for a day. Once 'done' I could remove the screws and it'd hold its shape.

If the radiant heat dish is like what they use in a paint booth ,I might be able to borrow one and see how I go on some off cuts first . Thanks for the tips .