Plastic Fantastic 2

[rtj]

they're always my last option because it usually takes at least a week to get anything from them.... I think I have the right ones now, but I need to get a car off the lift to go back...

In other questions, are there aftermarket, manual racks for the c5/c6?

On the grand am power rack, I just crossed the hydralic lines and used it as manual. It may work on a c5.


Edit: quick search shows photo of c5 rack with a “jumper” hose on the pump connections.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Can you feel the valve in the rack when you're driving?

 

[rtj]

On the grand am rack, no issues. I crossed the lines, I’ll see if I can find an old photo.

The only thing I really should do is make new bump steer blocks that give me a tighter turning radius.

The guy that posted the c5 fix was over at CF.

 

[rtj]

Discussion here:
https://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=713513#/topics/713513?page=1

 

[BBShark]

Looping the line (in-out) works.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Discussion here:
https://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=713513#/topics/713513?page=1

I read the discussion and it doesn't seem like anyone said "I tried it and it worked"

the thing I'm curious about. If you pull the power steering pump off a C3, the valve in the steering makes for a lot of sloop in the steering. Rack and pinion use the same kind of system - but it looks like a lot less play, so it may be nothing - that said, I'd hate to put this all together and find out that, while it does a nice job centering, it does a terrible job and being neutral on the road.

 

[rtj]

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-tech/3821690-c5-manual-steering.html

Found it again. See photo.

 

[BBShark]

Is there a manual steering option for a C5? I wouldn't think so.

Some people are running the Grand Am rack on C3's without a pump and no issues. It probably wouldn't be great for parking lot maneuvering but you probably won't be doing that.

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4337&highlight=manual+rack


http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9740&highlight=manual+rack

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

so the next step will either be gold or goat.edited I'm going to put Camaro rotors and Camaro Brembo brakes (basically rely on the design of GM).... will it work?edited dunno

I know I can make it work and I know that I'll have to build adapter brackets.... but here's the deal - Detroit Speed suspension is 18,000-23,000 and I may have 2k in this suspension with the new coilovers..... that's front/rear price.... wish me luck

as for the rack - I'm going with a stock C5. There is a drag-race manual rack available for about $500 but it states no street use - which could be an anti-lawyer device or could be it's not designed for high-lateral-g loads.... I'd rather not bet when it comes to that. Thus either I'll make the C5 steering manual (with the bypass line) or I may put a pump on and have hydraboost brakes as well. That said, I may make the steering true manual by converting the stock, C5 rack

 

[bobs77vet]

i like the C5 rack on my C5 and i liked the steeroids rack on the C3 (i think that was the grandam rack), i did have to play with the shims in the pump on the C3 to get the pressure right.


I think it would be hard to argue against the c5 rack as a good choice, can you use all the speed sensitivity steering stuff as well that the c5 has?? i guess the power steering pump pressure is reduced as the speed goes up.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I'm using the C5 because I'm widening the wheelbase - if I was going to use stock width, then the grand am for sure.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I got a stack of parts.... early, but not all correct
this one is correct (under the bubble wrap) it's a front sway bar for a C5/C6


rotors from a 2010-2015 Camaro was good too - though I need to do a bit of opening on the spindle



and they sent me the rear calipers rather then the front.... whoops.edited editedI sent the seller (ebay) a note, crossing my fingers he has the right ones.edited These use a 2" wide pad rather then a 2 1/2" wide along with the front rotor is thicker....


There is good news, though, making a bracket to make those fit the Corvette spindles should be child's play.edited Fortunately, I don't think there will be a run on these front end parts because this is not as plug and play as the rear..... of course, if it was easy....edited

I'm starting with a used C5/C6 front rack.... I'll make it manual, but it will give me the option of power if I don't like it... read, it makes me faster.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

in other news, I used my lathe to open up the rotors

it feetz

​​​​​​​

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

slowly the pieces are coming in... c5 rack
​​​​​​​

 

[rtj]

Pretty amazing that you are calling the rear swap “plug and play!”

The search for a improved, economical replacement rear end for C3’s was sort of a holy grail.

I envision someone offering a no-brainer kit with instructions. Not me, but I bet it would sell a few.
For the right price point, it would be well worth it.

And, it’s a modern irs package, which the aftermarket supports.

Edit: oh, I was just thinking how nice it would be to have a bigger lathe. Pretty much sold me with you’re “new” CL score.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

some parts arrived today....edited
the correct calipers

(there may be a very simply way to make these work without any cutting)
the issue is the rotor needs to move out on the hub or take material off one or the other (or both - hub and caliper)

that said, about a 1/4" is what would put it about perfect.... just shush and don't tell anyone in the C5 world that 14" Camaro rotors and SS calipers can fit on their hubs...edited

what I bought was the c5 cradle so that I could copy it

that said, I may simply use as-is.... dunno at this moment but the temptation is there (and there are substantial benefits)


It is 64" wide hub-to-hub* (compared to 58.7 stock).... which incidentally is the same width as the panther platform front suspension I put in the 50 Buick.... it's almost like I was planning this when I put the flares on.... there will be some who believe that, most won't

basically it's 3" from the edge of the flare to the hub


*to be sure we're all speaking the same language - track width is the center of the wheel to center of wheel.edited On cars like the C5 which put the hub well past the centerline of the wheel, that number is going to be a different point.edited The C3 has a centered hub, so the 59.7 is the hub face to hub face dimension.edited The C5 gets trick because there are 2, standard and Z06.edited The 'stated' track width is 62".edited The hub face to hub face is roughly (depending on alignment) 64 inches.edited the Z06, reportedly, is 66 inches

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Pretty amazing that you are calling the rear swap “plug and play!”

The search for a improved, economical replacement rear end for C3’s was sort of a holy grail.

I envision someone offering a no-brainer kit with instructions. Not me, but I bet it would sell a few.
For the right price point, it would be well worth it.

And, it’s a modern irs package, which the aftermarket supports.

Edit: oh, I was just thinking how nice it would be to have a bigger lathe. Pretty much sold me with you’re “new” CL score.

as far as far better suspension install, it really is because you've only got to be able to read a tape measure to get it centered in the space.

as far as I'm concerned, the I put under my FJ40 was difficult because everything had to be calculated. Here - it's all GM's design.....

inexpensive, as I feared when I started - the moment I started this, the prices on the assembly went up substantially... the people I bought it from want 3k for what I paid 750 to my door.

I found the lathe on Facebook marketplace, same type of place like CL, but it's a good option too

 

[bobs77vet]

it looks great....I have C5 zo6 springs from an 04 17k mile car. I bought the shocks and springs together at a really good deal and paid $200 for the springs. they are yours for that price plus shipping if you want them, I am not going to use them the roads are too crappy around here.







and the there are lowering bolts I think for the rear in this picture

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

maybe.... I was looking at coilovers, but I'm not convinced that GM isn't correct with the cross spring - so I'm going to do a bit more researching, because I hate getting a gift then not using it.... if you have any bolts hanging about - those I could use. What is it with ebay sellers - is there like a place that pays top-dollar for used bolts?


in response to RTJ - I may be convinced to do something to make the install easier, but I do this for fun (granted, I'm going to SEMA this year, so there is possibility of me monetizing stuff) and post to entertain and convince others that it's really not that hard to do.

I've had a couple different things copied and sold and I'm pretty happy with them making money off them. My entire point is to get people to just do it - nothing in building cars is impossible to learn, just be willing to say awfuxit and do it. What does annoy me is the profit-taking on these Camaro rear assemblies - but eventually the prices will come back down, not just that but without the flares the SS setup would have the hubs outside the wheel-wells on a C3.

What I do suspect is going to happen next will be the C5 guys upgrading with SS Brembo brakes. 14", the hot version have 6 piston fronts. You'll hear it here first..... I just need to cut the tabs off and redrill the spindles then bolt them on. I may need to do a 1/16" spacer behind the rotor but outside of that, you're looking at 14" brakes all the way around for about $500-$700.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Most of my day was thisedited


but I did get a few moments to plan
first of all.... I am leaning toward it's only going to need cut the original holes off then redrill the spindles.edited Once done, it'll need about 1/16" spacer behind the rotor




you can almost see the line

the yellow


is roughly where that rear hole isedited


I think the hardest part of this will be the radiator because the outlet and the front hole seem to occupy about the same space.edited Not a huge problem, but still fitting will be necessary
The oil pan, upon first measurement seems to clear - why reinvent the wheel? I'll use the cradle if it makes sense (meaning, takes less work).
I still have to build upper a-arm mounts but that seems to be the extent of the fab...edited

 

[bobs77vet]

whats the frame for?

I don't have any extra bolts for the cradles, only the two lowering bolts for the rear springs.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

the frame is what holds up the motor and attaches the lower half of a C5 front suspension

I suppose I should occasionally show the bit of leg-work I doedited
under the stack is a printout from Mitchells that gives the data points to align a C5 Corvette

then I needed to measure and translate the numbers to make a drawing to install the new cradle and suspension
​​​​​​​that is what the paper on the left then right are.... dimensions

as an aside, in searching for the drawings, I found there is a shop that installs the C5 stuff on C3s using the cradle like I'm doing.... my install will have a bit more detail than theirs did.... nice to know it's doable, though.

 

[bobs77vet]

very nice, to me it looked much larger in the photos then i guess it actually is

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I was pleasantly surprised that it looks like it will work.... still a long way, though, from saying it does work:banghead:

 

[69427]

Most of my day was thisedited
..........


I think the hardest part of this will be the radiator because the outlet and the front hole seem to occupy about the same space.edited Not a huge problem, but still fitting will be necessary
The oil pan, upon first measurement seems to clear - why reinvent the wheel? I'll use the cradle if it makes sense (meaning, takes less work).
I still have to build upper a-arm mounts but that seems to be the extent of the fab...edited

Just curious what the bare cradle weighs. If you get a future opportunity to put it on a scale I'd appreciate the info. Thanks.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Just curious what the bare cradle weighs. If you get a future opportunity to put it on a scale I'd appreciate the info. Thanks.

34 lbs.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

as we all know, stock is WAY too reliable for my tastes.... so we remove this


GM really should have put them on better... they just fell off



a bit of centering


all it needs to do is go straight up 5"


anyone needs a new brake system...edited
​​​​​​​

 

[SRountree]

What kind of break system? $$?

 

[69427]

Just curious what the bare cradle weighs. If you get a future opportunity to put it on a scale I'd appreciate the info. Thanks.

34 lbs.

Well that was quick. :amused:

Thanks.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

What kind of break system? $$?

2010 Camaro SS - more specifically, 14" disks and Brembo calipers