Weight reduction: Running out of ideas.

[vette427sbc]

Anybody know how much that thing weighs? I see quite a few smaller looking setups on newer cars in the junkyard and I always get curious if it's possible to put a later model unit on the car. Also, does anyone know if there's any Corvette specific issues/capabilities with the present motor that would prevent swapping in a newer part?

Thanks for any help or information.

The motor has to have a park function to move back under the wiper door. I just had a buick century in yesterday that had the park function. It was an '01 I think

Someone needs to make a fiberglass wiper door for the early cars...

 

[69427]

Haven't had any luck finding out the weight of a C5 front cradle yet, but have been amusing myself with other stuff in the mean time. Did a test fit of the new trans crossmember with the exhaust plugged in.
The crossmember so far has made my weight target of ten pounds less than the stock 22#piece (11.4#). I've hung on it a couple times and it feels pretty sturdy. I'm trying to figure out a convenient way to attach a dial indicator to the tunnel area and measure the crossmember deflection when I hang some weight off the center of it.



.......

I got to thinking I might just try to duplicate the exhaust termination box in aluminum. The scrap yard I go to has a lot of different sizes of aluminum tubing to choose from. What they don't have is tubing elbows, so I might have to figure out how many different bends I'm going to have to (somehow) fabricate that will still flow decently. IIRC, the box and the 4" tubing outlet that feeds the Y pipe behind the rear spring weighs about 26#. I think I could probably get the aluminum replacement down to about 16 pounds.

Managed to round up some material for the termination box. I got a couple 8 foot sections of 3" and 4" thin wall aluminum tubing, along with some assorted sizes of aluminum sheet. No aluminum elbows yet, so I might have to just try cutting a few pie shaped sections out of the 4" stuff to make a couple slight curves to make the S pipe just prior to the camber bracket.
Ended up buying an Eastwood MIG welder with their spool gun so I can make a little quicker progress on the aluminum welding where I can. The Eastwood welder will never be mistaken for a Lincoln or Miller piece, but it looks like it will do the job for small time operations like mine.

 

[phantomjock]

Is it the Eastwood 175? have one - will be interested in following your spool gun use - haven't tried that feature yet.

 

[69427]

Is it the Eastwood 175? have one - will be interested in following your spool gun use - haven't tried that feature yet.

Planning to give the spool gun a try this weekend, assuming all the outside silliness leaves me alone for a bit (yep, the 175).

 

[69427]

Played around a bit this afternoon, initially just messing with quarter and eighth inch scrap stuff. All in all I'm pretty happy with the welder. Just for kicks I tried a simple project I'd been mulling over for a while (all quarter inch stuff).



The OEM part is 2.3#, and this piece is 1.4#. I still need to put the rest of the welds in (adding weight), but I also need to cut off some excess length up front, drill out the front mount bolt hole, and grind out a little more clearance below the pinion yoke. Hopefully I can still reduce the component weight by 3/4 of a pound with this. The weight removed is low and rearward obviously, but I'll still take the reduction wherever I can find it.

Once I get this finished I'll see what level of the thinner stuff I can weld with this without burning through.

As I mentioned before, this welder won't be mistaken for a Miller or Lincoln (lots of plastic stuff on this one), but it's also half the price of the ones I had been looking at.

 

[69427]

Got the pinion bracket welded up and installed in the car. Three quarters of a pound less than the steel part. Not much, but some good practice with the welder. All in all I'm damn happy with the welder. Once I got the settings the way I liked it even a yahoo like me could lay down some decent looking beads. Next step is to try some 1/16" scrap stuff before I try doing the exhaust box in aluminum.

 

[69427]

Started to do some work on the exhaust box. First step was to get a couple pieces of the 3" OD inlet tubing expanded to 3" ID. Looked all over this area, and of the two muffler places I found one was closed (on a Friday) and the other doesn't deal in "tubing that big". So, rather than waste more time looking for yet another muffler shop I just cut some slots in the aluminum tubing and hammered it over some 3" steel tubing, and then welded the pie slots closed with my spool gun. After some practice and tweaking of the power and wire speed controls I got the tubing slices welded up. I'm using .035" wire (that was supplied with the machine) on the tubing which is about .070" wall thickness. I think I'm going to try some .030" wire on this project just to see if that gives me a bit more margin against burning through the tubing and the sheet stuff.

 

[69427]

Making some progress on the exhaust box replacement. The steel piece is in a picture a couple posts earlier. Here's the present aluminum piece during a test fit.



Due to time constraints (trying to get ready for an upcoming track day) I'm just replacing the piece prior to the S bend ahead of the rear spring. I don't have any 4" aluminum tubing elbows (so I'll have to make some replacements later) so I just have a temporary weight delta on this. The steel piece (without the elbows) weighs 15 pounds. The aluminum piece here weighs 5 pounds. I still need to cut out some excess material, but also add some stiffening material to keep the top and bottom surfaces from vibrating too much, so hopefully the total weight reduction will be 8-10 pounds. The 4" S pipe aluminum replacement later on should yield another two pounds perhaps.

 

[69427]

Shifter knob

Was cutting on the chunk of aluminum, originally going to make a ball shape to replace the stock (heavy stainless steel) piece when I got to thinking that a lot of newer cars have a more cylindrical shifter knob on them, so I thought I'd give that a try. If I don't like it I can then just grind the excess off and make it a ball shape.



The stock shifter ball is 8 ounces, while this is 5 ounces.

 

[mrvette]

Was cutting on the chunk of aluminum, originally going to make a ball shape to replace the stock (heavy stainless steel) piece when I got to thinking that a lot of newer cars have a more cylindrical shifter knob on them, so I thought I'd give that a try. If I don't like it I can then just grind the excess off and make it a ball shape.



The stock shifter ball is 8 ounces, while this is 5 ounces.

Weigh an 8 ball, that's what I have.....on a hurst shifter rod......I drive in the James Dean slouch position left hand at top of wheel, leaning over on the console pad, complete with my cool shifter knob.....:lol::lol::thumbs:

 

[sssuch]

Take a good look at the stack of shims under the Door hinges . I made one out of a piece of 1/4 " thick steel and then I got really anal and drilled it full of holes . I mean really full of holes and chamfered each one . When I was done it was easilly as light as Aluminum.

Also did the C5 master cylinder and Booster , and while I was at it dropped the steering column and replaced that heavy cast Iron support with the later stamped piece.

 

[69427]

Take a good look at the stack of shims under the Door hinges . I made one out of a piece of 1/4 " thick steel and then I got really anal and drilled it full of holes . I mean really full of holes and chamfered each one . When I was done it was easilly as light as Aluminum.

Also did the C5 master cylinder and Booster , and while I was at it dropped the steering column and replaced that heavy cast Iron support with the later stamped piece.

We're on the same page here. :thumbs:
I swapped out to the C5 master cylinder, and also bought a C5 booster, but it's still on the shelf at the moment. IIRC there's about a four ounce difference between a C3 and a C5 booster.
Replaced the steering column support last year. Big ugly chunk of cast iron.
Been eying the hinge shims. There's about 3/8" of shims in one of the driver's side hinges. I've been looking to make an aluminum replacement for them one of these days. IIRC it looks like a PITA to get to the hinge bolts, though.

 

[84rzv500r]

ditch the radio... it's a boat anchor

what about that carpet and those seats? :twitch:

:beer::beer::beer:

 

[mrvette]

Take a good look at the stack of shims under the Door hinges . I made one out of a piece of 1/4 " thick steel and then I got really anal and drilled it full of holes . I mean really full of holes and chamfered each one . When I was done it was easilly as light as Aluminum.

Also did the C5 master cylinder and Booster , and while I was at it dropped the steering column and replaced that heavy cast Iron support with the later stamped piece.

We're on the same page here. :thumbs:
I swapped out to the C5 master cylinder, and also bought a C5 booster, but it's still on the shelf at the moment. IIRC there's about a four ounce difference between a C3 and a C5 booster.
Replaced the steering column support last year. Big ugly chunk of cast iron.
Been eying the hinge shims. There's about 3/8" of shims in one of the driver's side hinges. I've been looking to make an aluminum replacement for them one of these days. IIRC it looks like a PITA to get to the hinge bolts, though.

remove threshold, and kick panel, there are the bolts on the bottom, but top requires removing dash panels....PIA for sure.....which is why my dash panel is on a plug for the lights, and tach is electronic with it's own plug, and the ONE ground lead......did all that years ago, on account of being lazy....

:thankyou:

 

[sssuch]

The C5 booster was one of the easiest mods yet ! Bolt patern exactly the same , just have to shorten the rod and add a clevis. The rod was sized perfectly to cut 3/8 fine threads . Also have to make the center hole bigger on the car, might be another ounce there. Change the tube nuts on the Brake lines and bleed, thats it.

 

[69427]

ditch the radio... it's a boat anchor The radio is coming out eventually for repair. I first need to figure out an acceptable blockoff plate.

what about that carpet and those seats? :twitch:

:beer::beer::beer:

Gotta have carpet, it's a street car. And the seats are lighter late model '79 seats (about 30# total lighter than the '69 seats).

All the cars I run with on track days are newer (and more expensive) street cars. All with full interiors. Just trying to play by the same informal "rules".

 

[69427]

Got the aluminum exhaust box finished and installed. Nine pounds less than the steel box (6# versus 15#). Looking to run a couple track days in the next couple weeks, so I suppose I'll find out if there's any durability issues with this thing.
After the track days are finished I'll get the 4" S pipe built which should take two more pounds off the exhaust.

 

[phantomjock]

May have found a quick 5# to loose (maybe 4+/-). I'll take a pic and post tomorrow.
It involves cutting away a section of the birdcage - under the door sill. There's still plenty of material and the fore and aft body mounts should keep everything in alignment and stable.
I've cut mine to let me remove the birdcage from the chassis/roll cage so I can get in there to paint, wire, add fuel and brake lines.
It may be a problem if you want to keep the stock floor though. But, I'll shoot a pic anyway.

Cheers - Jim

 

[mrvette]

Mike going to have to add lead to his gasoline just to hold the car down.....:thumbs:

 

[sssuch]

Looks like all the easy stuff is done , now it gets harder. How about the Bolts ? there is probably 100 or so bolts that are too long , anything sticking out past the nut is un-necessary . Allen heads usually weigh less than hex head. How about polishing the large castings? Not only are You makin it look perty , but You are removing metal and that = less weight.

I removed a couple of pounds from My Intake by removing un-necessary webbing between the runners , bumps and unused bolt bosses , along with polish and port inside and outside polish. Time to fire up the Drill Press You will be surprised how much it can remove. Stan

Remember lots ounces will add up to be Pounds.

 

[redvetracr]

Looks like all the easy stuff is done , now it gets harder.

actually, once the easy stuff is done it gets expensive...

 

[mrvette]

Looks like all the easy stuff is done , now it gets harder.

actually, once the easy stuff is done it gets expensive...

Since WHEN was any CAR hobby ever NOT 'expensive'......

 

[69427]

Ran over to Topeka for a track day yesterday. Hadn't been there since May due to a lot of family business keeping me on the road quite often, and the LR wheel bearing replacement last month. Put the car on the scales during Tech, and got 2815#. This was with 1/8 tank of fuel, no middle belly pans (didn't have time to put them back on after modifying the exhaust box), and I temporarily removed the passenger seat (20#) to install a second fire extinguisher in that spot on track days. Background: I had a development C4 car catch fire on me several years ago while on the test track, scaring the hell out of me, and I just like having a bit more extinguisher capacity when possible.



Once again, I had the oldest car on the track. There was a C7 running also, but he was running in the novice group so I didn't get to see how that car would run with an experienced driver. There was also a Ford GT(40) there on Hoosier tires, but I was able to run away from him. I assume there was just more car than driving ability there, to explain that circumstance.

 

[rtj]

Did you install an alum block bb? I thought you posted photos of one.

 

[69427]

Did you install an alum block bb? I thought you posted photos of one.

Yeah, did that a few years ago. So far it's held together, although I do tend to keep the RPM within reasonable limits to ensure some longevity.

 

[rtj]

What brand did you get?

I see on some crate engines it is a $2k upgrade, but that would be bill Mitchell. Dart would probably be more.

 

[69427]

What brand did you get?

I see on some crate engines it is a $2k upgrade, but that would be bill Mitchell. Dart would probably be more.

It was a bare Chevy block.

 

[rtj]

What brand did you get?

I see on some crate engines it is a $2k upgrade, but that would be bill Mitchell. Dart would probably be more.

It was a bare Chevy block.

Cool.

 

[69427]

Got the aluminum exhaust box finished and installed. Nine pounds less than the steel box (6# versus 15#). Looking to run a couple track days in the next couple weeks, so I suppose I'll find out if there's any durability issues with this thing.
After the track days are finished I'll get the 4" S pipe built which should take two more pounds off the exhaust.

I noticed at the track last Wednesday that the aluminum box is a little louder than the steel box. I think I'll cut it open a bit and add a couple more internal stiffening ribs, and possibly double wall the top and bottom. They're currently .070" (IIRC, as I didn't have any big size 1/8" sheet), and it won't cost me much weight to add the second layer.
I also need to tap and weld an aluminum piece to screw an O2 sensor into this box. I appreciate the help from a previous thread on what tap size is required for this (18mm x 1.5).

 

[69427]

Well, I added another stiffening rib inside the exhaust termination box (tieing the top and bottom surfaces), and welded several (ten, IIRC) two inch wide straps on the upper and lower surfaces to tie the internal rib nodes to the outer (left and right) surfaces. Added about a pound of material. Quieted the tinny sound a bit, but still not good enough. The sound in back out of the mufflers is quite quiet and acceptable, but inside the car the termination box just sounds like I'm sitting on top of one of those (I apologize if I'm insulting anyone) ******** flowmaster mufflers. While I like the concept of a couple more horsepower with a termination box, I need to make a decision on putting the heavier steel one back on, or just replacing the aluminum box with an aluminum Y-pipe (dual 3" into single 4"). I'm leaning toward doing the Y-pipe as I'm already planning on replacing the section of exhaust from the muffler inlets forward to the present exhaust box 4" outlet with aluminum tubing. I ought to be able to take another 5-8 pounds off the exhaust with this change.