mfain
Well-known member
After reading Grumpy's article, I looked and could not find a place to put a 20"X50" radiator to have 2 square inches per cubic inch for cooling. LOL
Plastic Fantastic 2
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SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
I didn't get how to read that because wouldn't multi-core radiators reduce that size requirement?
bobs77vet
Well-known member
I have a base c5 front and rear sway bar and I think the drag links and mounting stuff, you can have them for mock up purposes if you want them. I doubt they are thick enough for any purpose other then mock up. I bet shippings would be $45
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
I have base stuff - actually came here to post what they are for posterity. Front is 1.06 inches (26 mm), rear .961 (24 mm)
For the front I have from 1 1/4, 1 3/8, 1 1/2 (very expensive, very cool), for the rear, 38 mm but 3 adjustment points (38mm is within .05 inches of 1 1/2 inches)
The problem, as I see it, is that my car is substantially lighter then a Camaro....
here are the corner weights for the Camaro
digging up my scaling
so the million dollar question, (okay up to $2,000 question)... do I match front/rear sway bars? those front bars are all hollow....
For the front I have from 1 1/4, 1 3/8, 1 1/2 (very expensive, very cool), for the rear, 38 mm but 3 adjustment points (38mm is within .05 inches of 1 1/2 inches)
The problem, as I see it, is that my car is substantially lighter then a Camaro....
here are the corner weights for the Camaro
digging up my scaling
so the million dollar question, (okay up to $2,000 question)... do I match front/rear sway bars? those front bars are all hollow....
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
hotchkis 1 3/16 front, UMI 1 1/4 rear
Talked to someone at a company other then hotchkis, who used to work for hotchkis - and we hashed out a solution. I love that he recommended his old employer but as he pointed out, they didn't have a solution.
Also, he suggested a smaller, rear tire... sacrilege, I know, but I think he's right... I'd order the new tires but I need to get the front dialed in (with the new bushings and locks) because I *might* be able to run a 295 front tire. Not a 315 like everyone else, but a lot closer then the 275 I have now
In other new, I'm regearing my other rear differential to 3.73 in hopes that it will keep my clutch alive (also a better limited slip)
Talked to someone at a company other then hotchkis, who used to work for hotchkis - and we hashed out a solution. I love that he recommended his old employer but as he pointed out, they didn't have a solution.
Also, he suggested a smaller, rear tire... sacrilege, I know, but I think he's right... I'd order the new tires but I need to get the front dialed in (with the new bushings and locks) because I *might* be able to run a 295 front tire. Not a 315 like everyone else, but a lot closer then the 275 I have now
In other new, I'm regearing my other rear differential to 3.73 in hopes that it will keep my clutch alive (also a better limited slip)
bobs77vet
Well-known member
edit: i must have missed your last post with the solution, i like it.
i dont know how this applies to custom cars like yours, but the C5 later years Z06 sway bars were Front 30mm 1.18", Rear 23,6mm .929",
I have these on my 2004 C5 and I cant make the car lean on the public roads, not sure about on a track. I have the z06 shocks but base springs for ride comfort.
what strikes me is that in most setups the rear sway bar size always seems to be smaller then the front sway bars. could you use the c6 z06 as bench mark for sizing purposes?
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i dont know how this applies to custom cars like yours, but the C5 later years Z06 sway bars were Front 30mm 1.18", Rear 23,6mm .929",
I have these on my 2004 C5 and I cant make the car lean on the public roads, not sure about on a track. I have the z06 shocks but base springs for ride comfort.
what strikes me is that in most setups the rear sway bar size always seems to be smaller then the front sway bars. could you use the c6 z06 as bench mark for sizing purposes?
Corvette Chassis Comparison
Corvette Sway Bar Comparison Chart
Corvette Spring Rate Comparison Chart
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SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
I suspect this was the image you were trying to attach?
with Hotchkis bar
with Hotchkis bar
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
and the charts with spring rates
It's true that I don't have stock spring mounts - but the rates should be similar
It's true that I don't have stock spring mounts - but the rates should be similar
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
something I didn't know, the 2010-2011 Camaro SS had a different sway bar mounting point. I'll attach a link to a thread but the relevant pictures are here:
stock mounting, old style
1LE "new" style
I'm going to stick with the old because I have a UMI sway bar coming - but also because I think that opens up a can of worms with how it's put together now....
and the thread link: https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463979
stock mounting, old style
1LE "new" style
I'm going to stick with the old because I have a UMI sway bar coming - but also because I think that opens up a can of worms with how it's put together now....
and the thread link: https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463979
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
Brown Santa arrived today
18x10, 18x12.5
poor fgz, they're still too big for him.
forged, light weight
Apex gave me a deal on them, basically I paid the cast price for these (actually, a little less)... thanks Apex
18x10, 18x12.5
poor fgz, they're still too big for him.
forged, light weight
Apex gave me a deal on them, basically I paid the cast price for these (actually, a little less)... thanks Apex
bobs77vet
Well-known member
nice, I fully support Christmas in August,
those charts looked good on my screen but turned to crap when I hit "enter", i think it was different charts but same basically same info
those charts looked good on my screen but turned to crap when I hit "enter", i think it was different charts but same basically same info
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
potato camera for the blur again
stock clearance
new wheel clearance
rear stock
rear new
I know this sounds really dumb but I'm going to cut the front fenders to put larger tires on it. right now, it's about 1/2" outside the fender on the stock side and 1" on the new side. With the changes I'm going to make the control arms, I'll have about 1/2 of that solved but I want 315 front tires, not 275. Bright side is I'll 'fix' the paint flaws the painter did when I do this and resolve a couple other paint issues... thankfully it's black and really easy to match
stock clearance
new wheel clearance
rear stock
rear new
I know this sounds really dumb but I'm going to cut the front fenders to put larger tires on it. right now, it's about 1/2" outside the fender on the stock side and 1" on the new side. With the changes I'm going to make the control arms, I'll have about 1/2 of that solved but I want 315 front tires, not 275. Bright side is I'll 'fix' the paint flaws the painter did when I do this and resolve a couple other paint issues... thankfully it's black and really easy to match
bobs77vet
Well-known member
they match up nicely on the back, and bigger fender flares always look cool!!!!!!!
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
what's fun is it kind of fixes that front tire gap... because I can move in the same direction the flare is already going - makes it a lot easier to finish.
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
brief interlude
this is my 'body shop' probably electrical too
the first victim
and the other one
and like this... still have no idea what I'm going to power it with, however, thinking it needs a full tube frame
this is my 'body shop' probably electrical too
the first victim
and the other one
and like this... still have no idea what I'm going to power it with, however, thinking it needs a full tube frame
bobs77vet
Well-known member
I am jonesing for the buick sedanette.....
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
I was going to move it inside last night but ran out of time...
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
Sooooo, one of those 'fixits' from Optima was the clutch seemed to be starting to slip - so part of the fix is going to be changing rear gears to 3.73 from the 3.45 that it is now. While I'm at it, it's time to put the cooler on it, but never ever done one. what do I need to know about rear diff cooling?
phantomjock
Well-known member
I have drilled and setup my rear diff, bought the pump and cooler - but not quite to the install. Here is Grumpy from my bookmarks Go-To list:
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rear-differential-cooler.10005/#post-94668And a pic from my diff prep:
Here is the "diagram" I laid out for this part:
Cut off on left - Filter and I moved the return higher on the case cover.
NOTE - It's been near-on 10 years! I'd better get crackin'!
Cheers - Jim
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rear-differential-cooler.10005/#post-94668And a pic from my diff prep:
Here is the "diagram" I laid out for this part:
Cut off on left - Filter and I moved the return higher on the case cover.
NOTE - It's been near-on 10 years! I'd better get crackin'!
Cheers - Jim
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mfain
Well-known member
Here is what I did. The first photo shows a circle where DSE (GearFX) had me drill an tap for the lower drain line. It is on the bottom of the case just behind the pinion bearing. The pump is a Setrab gear driven pump. There is a Setrab filter in front of it. All lines are -8. The cooler is a Derale with integral fans. Air is ducted to the cooler from scoops just in front of the rear tires. Hope this helps.
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SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
so to toss a couple of thoughts out there - probably dumb, but I need to ask so I know - what is the optimal temperature of the rear differential? if I run lines to the front (ala what GM did with the Camaro), should I also cool the transmission as well?
a bit of a difference between those and mine. Mine has a cooler inside the differential cover so it's a water system it doesn't move oil but rather heat exchanges. Now to ask again, if I tap in and out of the TKX transmission, can I use ATF as my heat transfer medium? figure I'd daisy chain - other thought is use the cooler in the radiator so that it would maintain a minimum temp as well....
I am going to cool the PS as well and that brings problem number whatever, where to put it.
a bit of a difference between those and mine. Mine has a cooler inside the differential cover so it's a water system it doesn't move oil but rather heat exchanges. Now to ask again, if I tap in and out of the TKX transmission, can I use ATF as my heat transfer medium? figure I'd daisy chain - other thought is use the cooler in the radiator so that it would maintain a minimum temp as well....
I am going to cool the PS as well and that brings problem number whatever, where to put it.
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
and I know that in the end of all of this, there will be a PF3 that incorporates all that I'm learning....
phantomjock
Well-known member
PF3 ???
Ahhh - Plastic Fantastic - 3!
I got it. Took a moment. Maybe something from "scratch?"
Cheers - Jim
Ahhh - Plastic Fantastic - 3!
I got it. Took a moment. Maybe something from "scratch?"
Cheers - Jim
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
convertible but probably just start with a tub and hopefully a title
rtj
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If it already has a intercooler built in, why not start with that? Your cooling loop is then separate from the oil reservoir, which means you’ll never dump all the oil when a line breaks.
As far as temperature, probably look at the temperature characteristics of the oil you use.
Looking forward to your solution.
Edit: if you used glycol, the pump would probably be a lot cheaper and filtration less of an issue.
As far as temperature, probably look at the temperature characteristics of the oil you use.
Looking forward to your solution.
Edit: if you used glycol, the pump would probably be a lot cheaper and filtration less of an issue.
Last edited:
rtj
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“Gear Oil Operating Temperature
For the gear oil to do its work, it needs the right temperature. Normal gear oil temperature lies between 50- 55°C (90 – 100ºF) and most gearbox and transmission manufacturers state that the operating temperature of the transmission should not exceed 130°C (250ºF).It is important to confirm the exact temperature with your oil’s manufacturer and to stay within that given range. This maximizes the oil’s viscosity and increases its lifespan, meaning that you can go for longer periods between changes.
The oil temperature range will vary depending on the type of oil used – whether mineral or synthetic as well as on the operating conditions. If you decide to use mineral oil-based gear oils on your buggy, you need to ensure that the oil doesn’t exceed 75 – 80°C.
You may be wondering why it’s important to stay within the recommended temperature range. Well, this is because constant exposure to high temperatures changes an oil’s chemical structure. These changes can also be triggered when the gear oil comes into contact with metal catalysts like iron or copper or when it is mixed with air. All these cause the oil to age. The speed of the aging process depends on the oil’s structure, how much heat it’s subjected to, and for how long. Water, dust, rust, and other contaminants also contribute to oil aging.”
https://reddotengineering.com/what-is-the-temperature-range-buggy-race-gear-oils-must-perform/
I thought this was a good write up.
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
Tires... I can't do it. I keep trying to convince myself to either go square or go with the slicks as a rear tire - all to get a 200tw tire. I'm sorry, but 10% more contact patch should easily equal any 'better' traction I get from the smaller, narrower tire.
... the comparison
the left is what's on the car now
now a 325 v. 345..... while I know what I just said above there is a 200tw tire from continental, problem is the rear is a 345 not 325.
not bad until you realize that where it doesn't really fit would be nearly impossible to make a decent-looking flare
I hate to say it but either I'm going with a right size tire and the wider front (which is where most of the problem lay) in a 340 or so tw.... but now that that's out there - talk me out of it....
in other news, rear, adjustable sway bar from UMI
and new Hotchkis for the front...
and new gears... 3.91s (not 3.73 as previously reported).... I know, I know, I wasn't thrilled with them in the 06 GTO I had, but I think this is different because bigger tire, more hp and lighter car. At this point, 2000 rpm in 5th gear is 85 mph.... and I'm frying the clutch taking off from a standing start.... bonus is big smoke shows.
and adding a cooler to the rear diff
what is wrong with me? (rhetorical, sit down FGZ)... I won't spend the dollars to toss the lunchbox lockers out of my FJ40 but will spend it to upgrade to a geared limited slip in the C3?
... the comparison
the left is what's on the car now
now a 325 v. 345..... while I know what I just said above there is a 200tw tire from continental, problem is the rear is a 345 not 325.
not bad until you realize that where it doesn't really fit would be nearly impossible to make a decent-looking flare
I hate to say it but either I'm going with a right size tire and the wider front (which is where most of the problem lay) in a 340 or so tw.... but now that that's out there - talk me out of it....
in other news, rear, adjustable sway bar from UMI
and new Hotchkis for the front...
and new gears... 3.91s (not 3.73 as previously reported).... I know, I know, I wasn't thrilled with them in the 06 GTO I had, but I think this is different because bigger tire, more hp and lighter car. At this point, 2000 rpm in 5th gear is 85 mph.... and I'm frying the clutch taking off from a standing start.... bonus is big smoke shows.
and adding a cooler to the rear diff
what is wrong with me? (rhetorical, sit down FGZ)... I won't spend the dollars to toss the lunchbox lockers out of my FJ40 but will spend it to upgrade to a geared limited slip in the C3?
phantomjock
Well-known member
I like this internal cooler approach - any leaks in the cooling system are limited to the external cooling system - and the differential keeps its oil.
Nice idea. The other approach (mine) takes more differential fluid - and as mentioned - any damage/leak puts the diff at risk.
Good approach I'd say!
Cheers - Jim
Nice idea. The other approach (mine) takes more differential fluid - and as mentioned - any damage/leak puts the diff at risk.
Good approach I'd say!
Cheers - Jim
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
I got really lucky, I bought it from a GM Outlet for cheap - now they're unobtainium and highly sought after....
SuperBuickGuy
Well-known member
So I'm tired of relying on people to do ring and pinion swaps for me. Now is an optimal time to learn
mark the caps
get caps off
spend rest of night looking for pry bars... moving is SO much fun....
*and in case any of you are silly enough to follow my instructions, this is, if I count all of the ones I've done in my life... is the first. I did try once before but I couldn't get the gears to give a good pattern. Turns out I did it right but the case was junk.... anyway, there's the warning
mark the caps
get caps off
spend rest of night looking for pry bars... moving is SO much fun....
*and in case any of you are silly enough to follow my instructions, this is, if I count all of the ones I've done in my life... is the first. I did try once before but I couldn't get the gears to give a good pattern. Turns out I did it right but the case was junk.... anyway, there's the warning
