Plastic Fantastic 2

[phantomjock]

I'm going to put a wing on this car... what would you put and why?

Here is a project that has been languishing for 5-6 years:


With some testing, you might find it not quite in clear air and might still have a bubble trapped behind the rear window.

This one in "the tunnel" :

Aero balance is important. Note the huge dam on the front:

That could be a splitter/diffuser instead of a dam. A lot of similarities to your project - have no details on this one.


Adding a belly pan is single best addition you can make - but not without installation challenges. With rake you can get downforce and "tailor" it by changing ride height front/rear. With your side pipes - you have eliminated one of the big installation problems - the exhaust system.
Might start with building a rear diffuser. Downforce with minimum additional drag.

A rear spoiler might be easier to "tune." You can work the angle and trim its size as required. You'll note Brian Hobaugh and Danny Popp tend to use spoilers and not wings - as does Jake Rozelle and his C5Z Corvette. Clear lexan and a hinge with some struts --"eazy-peasy".

Now you know, Big Wings are BAD ASS!

Cheers - Jim

Here is an update on the CIRO Racing (from 2 years ago-Redit): NOTE - the Side Skirts Side pipes under? That is my plan...

 

[mfain]

If you go to the APR Performance website and drill down through the products (wings) you can get to the drag/downforce tables. Her is an example for the GT-1000, dual element wing: https://aprperformance.com/racing-product/gt-1000-dual-element-adjustable-wing/

That is their highest downforce wing, but fairly draggy. I just bought a GTC-500 wing from them that better suits my needs. They custom built it with the support pick-up locations at the width they needed. Got it in a week. Very light, high quality CF.

Pappy

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I'm going to put a wing on this car... what would you put and why?

Here is a project that has been languishing for 5-6 years:


With some testing, you might find it not quite in clear air and might still have a bubble trapped behind the rear window.

This one in "the tunnel" :

Aero balance is important. Note the huge dam on the front:

That could be a splitter/diffuser instead of a dam. A lot of similarities to your project - have no details on this one.


Adding a belly pan is single best addition you can make - but not without installation challenges. With rake you can get downforce and "tailor" it by changing ride height front/rear. With your side pipes - you have eliminated one of the big installation problems - the exhaust system.
Might start with building a rear diffuser. Downforce with minimum additional drag.

A rear spoiler might be easier to "tune." You can work the angle and trim its size as required. You'll note Brian Hobaugh and Danny Popp tend to use spoilers and not wings - as does Jake Rozelle and his C5Z Corvette. Clear lexan and a hinge with some struts --"eazy-peasy".

Now you know, Big Wings are BAD ASS!

Cheers - Jim

Here is an update on the CIRO Racing (from 2 years ago-Redit): NOTE - the Side Skirts Side pipes under? That is my plan...

If I had seen that silver car before I painted mine... that's gorgeous... maybe the next car (ha).

The green C3 at Optima had basically that (without the hinge) flap screwed to its rear spoiler... I was too busy with my troubles to watch him run - but I've watched (you?) with the yarn taped all over a C3 - and my impression was you only really need maybe 6" from the outside because the space behind the rear window is a wind-reversing mess. What is helpful from above is the advice of getting the wing in clean air - in that vein, I note some wings have a raised, center portion, my initial impression is that would create high pressure under the wing and defeat the whole point of a wing.... but they're popular so I must be missing something..

I'm extending the front spoiler to get it closer to the ground - mostly because my impression of a splitter is that it would trap high pressure air under the hood due to our car's bottom-breathing nature. I realize that the right thing to do would be mimic a 80-81 nose but style is, again, going to trump over airflow because that style isn't my style.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

If you go to the APR Performance website and drill down through the products (wings) you can get to the drag/downforce tables. Her is an example for the GT-1000, dual element wing: https://aprperformance.com/racing-product/gt-1000-dual-element-adjustable-wing/

That is their highest downforce wing, but fairly draggy. I just bought a GTC-500 wing from them that better suits my needs. They custom built it with the support pick-up locations at the width they needed. Got it in a week. Very light, high quality CF.

Pappy

I'll ask the same question to you - I looked at the GTC-500 and wondered why they create a scoop in the center of the wing. To my novice eyes, that would create high pressure under the wing - would it be better to go taller and use a flat wing?

on that same issue, should I run braces from the frame to the deck to support the wing? if so, maybe a behind the bumper C bracket style would work better?

I keep looking at the mountain of knowledge racers have and it seems to be just getting bigger....

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Guess what? Fed Ex is not delivering on time again.... FiTech knew not to send it through them, but in a final "screw you for not continuing to let us fix crappy products" they sent it by FedEx.....edited

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[SuperBuickGuy]

heh, first picture of this series is 6 of 66.... and it's wiring.edited This is not coincidence.
will this spot work?

nope

so I built a pan

installed the digital ignition control inside

except for fans, this is ready to run


oh and some reassembly


​​​​​​​I'm so glad I bought the Dakota Digital dash - it really does make this a pretty easy thing to remove the dash to wire....edited

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

made noise tonight (yay).... thanks Regis!

wiring done (just need to tidy up

first shot was a fail because Holley didn't include their patented pointer setter.... which, I got it close, but what I didn't get close was which wire was number one

it runs again.... tomorrow, finish tidying up, tune it and drive it


I also got these so I can put the crotch harness into the stock seats...edited


part of me thinks I can rebuild the stock seats and add bolster.... dunno, don't think it saves me any money but they would fit better
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[bobs77vet]

I also got these so I can put the crotch harness into the stock seats...edited


part of me thinks I can rebuild the stock seats and add bolster.... dunno, don't think it saves me any money but they would fit better
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you would have to at least think about and sit in C5 seats as an alternative

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I also got these so I can put the crotch harness into the stock seats...edited


part of me thinks I can rebuild the stock seats and add bolster.... dunno, don't think it saves me any money but they would fit better
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you would have to at least think about and sit in C5 seats as an alternative

my head is already in the Astro top... I've sat in C5 seats in a C3... do they make clear, windshield frames? the only one that works is Fiero seats - but they need to be recovered; so why not simply go custom?

 

[BBShark]

I also got these so I can put the crotch harness into the stock seats...edited


part of me thinks I can rebuild the stock seats and add bolster.... dunno, don't think it saves me any money but they would fit better
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you would have to at least think about and sit in C5 seats as an alternative

my head is already in the Astro top... I've sat in C5 seats in a C3... do they make clear, windshield frames? the only one that works is Fiero seats - but they need to be recovered; so why not simply go custom?

I mounted my C5 seats directly to the floor (in the back) so that I wasn't sitting up too high. I didn't even use the C3 adjusters.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Well, I think I'm pretty sure the cascade of events that led to the FiTech dying.
but first

hood fits

ish

some trimming will occur
Interior is mostly back together

some preliminary tuning happened
butedited


So what happened. I think the headlights were the proverbial straw - the fans were running full bore and the switch couldn't handle the 30 amp current.... that popped the fuse and created a voltage surge.edited Which scrambled the computer and took the alternator with it.edited I gave up when the alternator wasn't charging... by that time, it really didn't matter... today, it was generating 12.5 volts.editededited

The alternator is, iirc, a 63 amp alternator because, well, I didn't expect to be running fans or a EFI fuel pump.edited Add that 30 amp headlight lift and there it is.edited Had the car been off when I flipped the switch, I would have been annoyed at the headlights not popping up but the car would have continued to work.edited Anyway, a new DB alternator should be here Friday....edited

and before FiTech starts claiming vindication - no. Had they called me back like they promised, we could have diagnosed the problem and I'd have gotten to race..... jerks.

 

[mfain]

I'm not sure how your ECU power supply is wired, but my ECU manufacturer recommended a 30 amp relay for power and a 20 amp fuse after that to protect the ECU.

Reference your earlier question about the GT-500 wing, the center section is "scooped" to change the angle of incidence (and consequently, the angle of attack) for the center section of the wing where the airflow into the wing is influenced by the flow over the roof. The angle in the center for that wing is basically a generic solution for late model stuff like C6 Corvettes and fastback Mustangs. The outboard ends of the wing do most of the downforce work because the airflow is not effected as much by the doghouse. If you look at the Viper ACR wing (they spent hundreds of hours in the wind tunnel), they made the outboard ends into a bi-plane to create more downforce - at the expense of more drag. If you really wants tons of downforce, the GT-1000 dual element wing is the ticket - but it is also plenty draggy.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I'm not sure how your ECU power supply is wired, but my ECU manufacturer recommended a 30 amp relay for power and a 20 amp fuse after that to protect the ECU.

Reference your earlier question about the GT-500 wing, the center section is "scooped" to change the angle of incidence (and consequently, the angle of attack) for the center section of the wing where the airflow into the wing is influenced by the flow over the roof. The angle in the center for that wing is basically a generic solution for late model stuff like C6 Corvettes and fastback Mustangs. The outboard ends of the wing do most of the downforce work because the airflow is not effected as much by the doghouse. If you look at the Viper ACR wing (they spent hundreds of hours in the wind tunnel), they made the outboard ends into a bi-plane to create more downforce - at the expense of more drag. If you really wants tons of downforce, the GT-1000 dual element wing is the ticket - but it is also plenty draggy.

They want it wired directly to the battery. No fuse... I'm kind of not following their advice because I wired it to remote terminals. I'll say this for certain, not putting some kind of fuse or disconnect in that line goes against absolutely everything I've ever been taught, seen or heard. That said, it's also their warranty and potentially their liability if something goes dreadfully wrong.

That makes sense about the changed angle of attack... love learnin' new things.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

back to the hood....

hardly a twitch to cut on a painted car any more

what to use for marking compound? ah yes, anti-seize

and cutting commences

 

[bobs77vet]

i used my granddaughters play doh the other day....and now keep a small container in my garage of it

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

got the new alternator... if I can remember where I got the other; it's probably still under warrantyedited
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[SuperBuickGuy]

More inductees into the Aaron C3 Club.edited Not my car, but a friend's










73 350 car, one owner, 4 speed, needs a complete restoration but drove most of the way home... I think the coil is bad.edited The PO thought vaporlock, but the carb still has fuel in it when it dies.... new fuel pump, new cap, new plugs, new points... dies when it gets fully heat soaked....

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

In new C3 news - new coil and the right, rear bearing is in tough shape (which we knew at the initial inspection).... so no major drives until that gets fixed. I'm trying to convince him that a LS 427 and 5 speed would be the right choice... I think he's going with ridetech rear, with offset trailing arms and coil overs along with a full rebuild to fix the suspension issues.

In PF2 news
A4 Corbeau seats ordered (with brackets). Get this, they called me to let me know the seat I ordered wouldn't fit. How weird is that? customer service BEFORE the sale. Of course, they only send by FedUp - so I imagine there will be a saga.... however, it's so refreshing to get such great customer service that I have to trumpet them.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

engine is back together

Luigi approves

inside, I'm getting there... the center plate wasn't well fastened and it's time to make it so

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

time to fix another issue... heat to the inside....edited
the parts, a bypass, and a 160 degree thermostat

a bypass

and a Luigi approval

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

tuned on the Holley Sniper EFI tonight.edited IAC is sticking at 30%... exercised it, found the bolts weren't tight holding it on (ugh).edited it worked for a bit, but then started acting up again.edited It's a standard IAC so I'll replace it, might even have one in my EFI box.edited Also, TPS is adjustable (like manually).... be nice if they'd mentioned that... ah well, I am here

​​​​​​​lurnin'

 

[phantomjock]

Ain't Hot-Roddin' FUN!

Sorry to read these challenges with installing EFI.
Would have expected it would be Plug and Play by now.

I'll try to remember/reflect your experience - when I get to mounting and firing up the Webers and integrating the crank trigger set up.

At least Luigi is there for support! :thumbs:

Cheers - Jim

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I am getting pretty quick at diagnose and fix, though. I also, still, like the electronic spark control.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

took it for a run, pulled a plug

a lot lean and a bit of detonation
added some fuel, re-tuned the IAC

it's better, may add a touch more cruising fuel
interior is back together

the start of Monday's project (block holes
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[SuperBuickGuy]

continuing.... those block and redirect air towards the front rotors

move cars out of the shop

for a Ford... I know, right? who saw that coming?

some know, I have a loaner kid who is an amazing photographer at scale stuff.... time to get a couple things done and diagnose some issues

basically, it needs mufflers and the tank dropped to find a leak.edited I also helped Anthony install some new chrome badging

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Yesterday Ford, today 73 C3
still having trouble with this car dying... fuel is fine, thought it was the coil, but nope.... now changing to pertronix - maybe the resistor wire was bad, dunno, this solves that issue... but will it fix it? time will tell

175 thunderous horsepowers there

well it runs, again....


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[bobs77vet]

i had a car that the fuel line pick up would get a piece of crude stuck in it and block the flow, car dies pressure is released crude falls down life is good until the cycle starts again randomly.....that was a bear to diagnose. because immediately after stalling it would fire right up

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

i had a car that the fuel line pick up would get a piece of crude stuck in it and block the flow, car dies pressure is released crude falls down life is good until the cycle starts again randomly.....that was a bear to diagnose. because immediately after stalling it would fire right up

it could be..... we will see how the electronic conversion fairs....

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

hmmm... that looks easy - the horn circuit

but wait, there's more

checked valve lash.... it's fine

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

electronics.... first problem with the horn


second problem (and the link I put above is the fix)
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