Braided Fuel Line recommendation?

[Twin_Turbo]

actually there is a fitting for hard lines, it has a brass ferrule and is rated to about 50 psi but that's on a brand new steel line, not old rusted/pitted stuff and I wouldn't use them on any injection apart from low pressure TBI applications. Thery're fine for tranny oil cooler lines and such.

Swagelok sells stainless hard line adapters that are rated for much higher pressures but they are expensive.

 

[greg75vette]

For hard line you have to use a flare nut, there is no fitting for hard lines. The flare nut adapts the tubing to AN (3/8" tubing to 6AN). On the pic below you can see tubing and flare nuts between the gauge and the regulator.



.

Thanks for the picture! I figured I had to use a flare nut to an adapter for -6AN. I'm still searching for that adapter though. What adapter did you use? What I have been looking for is a female to the flare side to AN fitting on the other.

That was my original idea until I found out that my fuel could ruin rubber hoses (10% ethanol). In fact, I replaced the "S" hose that runs from the frame to my fuel pump on my L48 and within a year it was leaking fuel, BAD. A bunch of my other hoses have also hardened considerably that I replaced at the same time.

That is why I want to run Teflon hoses.

With that said, do you have similar issues and does Florida have similar fuel?

Up to 10% Ethanol in the fuel here but so far no problems.... I'm using the Summit brand hose, 20' for $80.
Doesn't say anything about Ethanol:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-230620/Application/?prefilter=0

That was the hose I looked at originally. Since it doesn't say it's compatible with alcohol, I'm reluctant to use it.

actually there is a fitting for hard lines, it has a brass ferrule and is rated to about 50 psi but that's on a brand new steel line, not old rusted/pitted stuff and I wouldn't use them on any injection apart from low pressure TBI applications. Thery're fine for tranny oil cooler lines and such.

Swagelok sells stainless hard line adapters that are rated for much higher pressures but they are expensive.

Agreed on the fittings. Summit carries some for Al tubing, but none for SS tubing and I don't think the pressure rating is all that high.
Swagelok is the exact company I've been looking at on and off for the past few hours. Their site is slow as balls, so I haven't had luck just yet. However, if I had my choice, I would like a flare nut to AN fitting adapter.

Also, I'm not using my original fuel lines. I'll be cutting them out. I will be using new hard line, just to clarify if there was any confusion.


One of these days, I'll find what I need...

 

[greg75vette]

Ok. I think I just found a breakthrough! I became desperate and checked out summit's help. I found their tech articles and came across this article : No More Leaks: Plumbing Installation Tips from Earl’s Performance

Apparently, they use tube sleeves and tube nuts to adapt the hardline. Is this what I am supposed to use? I asked about them earlier in the thread and the question when unanswered. I hope it is!

 

[MYBAD79]

Sleeve and tubing nuts is the way to go for the flared tubing end. The flare (37 degrees) mates to the fitting and tightening the nut provides the clamping force that it takes to seal.... I found a pic of one of these compression fittings - I wanted to use it on my stock fuel pump but I did not really like the idea on a fuel line and decided on a aftermarket pump with NPT threads that I adapted to -6AN.



On Summits website you can see photos of the tube nuts and the sleeves. the sleeve goes inside the nut (you need one of each per tubing flare)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220633-2/

 

[greg75vette]

YES! That is fantastic news! I finally understand what's going on, haha.

Mybad,
is this what you mean?

That's from there how-to article. What a sigh of relief!

Thanks for the help guys. I think I can plan out my system now. Until the next snag, that is.

Thanks again!

 

[MYBAD79]

Mybad,
is this what you mean?

exactly :thumbs:

 

[Grampy]

You can also use Swagelok type fittings. No flare required, just cut the tube to length. Good at 1500 psi. Reliable and reusable. As TT mentioned they can be expensive. I'll post some pictures as soon as i come to grips with Windows 7

 

[Grampy]

Pictures of the swagelok fitting

 

[greg75vette]

The swagelok fittings look like what we use on test equipement for air heater traverses. That alone gave me hope that I would find something. If you don't mind me asking, do know how much those fittings cost you?

 

[Grampy]

We used swagelok brand in most of our lab set ups and on all our nuclear equipment. It's very reliable. The advantage of Swagelok is ease of fabrication (you just cut tube to length and assemble fitting with hand wrench). Down side is cost of the fitting. I was lucky and got an assortment of 316 St Stl surplus fittings cheap. You can find the exact fitting you want and the local distributor on line at swagelok. My guess is about $25 for a 3/8 tube by -6 adaptor in Stainless. The system is basically bulletproof. My fitting and teflon hose fuel assy shown in the photos has been in place about 30 years, on and off countless times and never gives a bit of trouble.

 

[greg75vette]

Yeah that's up there, but they are easy to install. I'll have to weigh out the options. I wouldn't have buy a tubing flare tool, for one.

 

[Grampy]

There is one other thing to consider if it applies in your application. Because you don't have to leave room to get a flaring tool die on the end of the line you can usually (depends on tool and die set) get the swagelok fitting closer to a bend in the tube. Just something to know if you have space restrictions and don't want the losses associated with a 90* fitting or if the tube is stubbed out on a component and the die won't fit.

Grampy

 

[Jsup]

Oh alright. That explains it. I planned on having the hard line a single piece and the filter right before entering the hard line. However, that isn't a bad idea with what you did.

I think I'll have to talk to my local speed shop because I can't seem to find fittings that work directly with hard line SS tubing. The ones I found on summit all crimp onto Al tubing.

I'm starting to think I'll just run hose the whole length for simplicity reasons. I'm starting to lose it :banghead:

There are compression fittings that go on hard line and adapt to flex line. I used them on my transmission lines. They work well. Since it's a compression fitting you don't need to flare the line. It's a compression fitting like under your sink on the feed lines.

 

[greg75vette]

Bump!

I figured I would just continue this thread instead of starting a new one.

I wound up getting some great stuff for fuel lines. All braided lines are PTFE (Teflon) lined which requires a special hose end used; Steel instead of aluminum.

So my question is, where I have these Steel AN hose ends meeting aluminum AN connectors, should I have some sort of anti-seize on the threads to prevent galling?

That's all! Thanks guys.

 

[denpo]

All braided lines are PTFE (Teflon) lined which requires a special hose end used; Steel instead of aluminum.

Where if you get this info from?
I've been sold PTFE lined hose and aluminum fitting purposely designed for such hose, from the same vendor.
Between the vendor and you someone is wrong, I hope his you :twitch::lol:

 

[MYBAD79]

aluminum fittings should be fine, why wouldn't they ?

anti seize is always a good idea, very few exceptions like strut rod ends (the adjustable ones) and control arm shaft bushing bolts ... that said, i installed my AN fittings dry... no seized threads and no leaks....but if i did it again i would use lubrication on the threads and even on the conical sealing surfaces

 

[greg75vette]

All braided lines are PTFE (Teflon) lined which requires a special hose end used; Steel instead of aluminum.

Where if you get this info from?
I've been sold PTFE lined hose and aluminum fitting purposely designed for such hose, from the same vendor.
Between the vendor and you someone is wrong, I hope his you :twitch::lol:

I don't think either is wrong, it's just what that particular manufacturer uses. Red Horse and Aeroquip use steel hose ends like these:

aluminum fittings should be fine, why wouldn't they ?

anti seize is always a good idea, very few exceptions like strut rod ends (the adjustable ones) and control arm shaft bushing bolts ... that said, i installed my AN fittings dry... no seized threads and no leaks....but if i did it again i would use lubrication on the threads and even on the conical sealing surfaces

Cool. I just started putting these together so I'll put a little on the threads and a touch on the cone. Definitely don't want that floating through the system. Thanks!

 

[Belgian1979vette]

I understand that teflon lined would be best. But in that category, there's a limited selection of -10 hoses and hose ends.

Would the perform-o-flex that i have now, also pose problems with the fuel in Europe.

I read somewhere that it depends on the additives in the fuel. Apparently that's not the same in Europe and the us.

Thx

 

[ToniH]

Its ethanol that attacks the rubber hoses so I think its the same in Europe too. I don't think anybody really knows what other additives do in the long run.

I chose teflon but I think if you are carefull and replace rubber hoses every now and then (2-3 years?) you will be ok.

 

[redvetracr]

use what you like but Aeroquip recommends rubber lined hose for fuel not Teflon lined, as to hose ends (fittings) all the AQP hose ends for Teflon lined hose are steel with a replaceable sleeve....

http://www.youblisher.com/p/3647-Eaton-Aeroquip-Racing-High-Performance-Catalog/

 

[Belgian1979vette]

use what you like but Aeroquip recommends rubber lined hose for fuel not Teflon lined, as to hose ends (fittings) all the AQP hose ends for Teflon lined hose are steel with a replaceable sleeve....

http://www.youblisher.com/p/3647-Eaton-Aeroquip-Racing-High-Performance-Catalog/

On one of the other forums i was following a similare discussion, a manufacturer stated that the regular hose was ok for use with race gas and not for use with pump gas for the simple reason they would start weeping. They recommended teflon lined hose.

Food for thought but i'm pretty sure the alcohol content of pump gas has a lot to do with it.

As for the timeline, some seem to start weeping almost immediatly.

Seen the risk involved...not a good idea i would say. Sadly i already bought a lot of fitting before finding this out.

 

[greg75vette]

Ethanol does eat rubber. I wasn't confident that the material contained in 'normal' braided hose would hold up to Ethanol and I've had my own experience of low pressure rubber fuel lines leaking only after a year installed.

My personal theory as to why so many people can smell gas in their garage from installing full length braided hose is due to the core being eaten by additives such as ethanol.

Once I found out that it is perfectly acceptable to use PTFE hose as fuel tubing, I went for it. I can flow just about anything through it without issue. It isn't outrageously expensive, so for me it was worth the extra coin.

With that being said, if I had normal braided hose already, I would run it until I smelled or saw gas weeping. As long as a consciencious eye was kept on it, I think it would be ok. But if and when it failed, I'd replace it with PTFE in a second.

 

[greg75vette]

Bumping an old thread in order to ask a routing question. I'm finally looking into routing my fuel lines and I have a dilemma. There seems to be two routing options with the current configuration and both have some drawbacks. Keep in mind this is on the driver's side.

First up is routing the fuel line from the frame rail to the fender and around everything, including the vacuum booster. The line would then cross as the picture shows:



It's currently laying between the booster and MC. I have insulating wrap I can put on so nothing chafes. I understand the MC will get hot, but the wrap should help with that. I like this install the most because it keeps the fuel completely out of the way of everything else.

The second way is between the head and firewall. I'm not crazy about this due to the proximity to the exhaust. It is also a much busier area with the wiring and vacuum hoses.









In that last picture, the bolt that is half in my valve cover is for the coils, so keep in mind they will also be in the area.

I would also have to buy another elbow for the second option, but that is a minor problem.

So what do you all think? The first is my favorite, but are there unseen drawbacks? I've looked at a few swap pics that others have done and it at least one other had it draped over the MC/booster. So I'm inclined to think it's ok.

 

[BBShark]

I think the fuel line over the booster looks a little weird. It should work, but it kinda looks like an afterthought.

 

[denpo]

Over the head cover is wrong IHMO, any leak on this line would lead to fuel dripping right over to the headers.
Not thrilled by the firewall path either.
I'm not LS1 expert, but I assume the stock setup is pretty much like the SBC setup (fuel line coming from the front of the engine).
Any rational for not going this way?

If I had to go by the back driver side of the engine I'd go over the pedal box them dive down toward the vapor canister.
It's a matter of cleareance with the hood.

 

[TimAT]

How about moving the line toward the centerline of the car at the rear and over the trans tunnel above the insulation? With that, you can place the drop anyplace on the firewall you want.
I'd not do that with the braided line, but running hard line is not to tough, and there are hard line adapters you can install to keep the braided section as short as possible.
Just a thought.

 

[greg75vette]

Thanks for the replies.

I agree it looks like an afterthought with the first option.

The fuel rail nipple is directly to the right of the fuel line in the first picture. It's perpendicular to the fuel rail and is dead level so coming from the front or back of the engine will require me to go over the valve cover and that'll be tight with the coils.
I looked a little more at it this afternoon and I might be able to go under the MC but I need a way to hold the fuel line close to the fender. I'm using PTFE hose and it's real stiff so if I don't anchor it right, it'll do whatever it wants. I thought of riveting a bracket to the fender (at the drip rails) but I'm not sure of another anchor point.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[68/70Vette]

In 1962, I got a summer job at Aeroquip in Jackson, Michigan. It was a summer job between my Junior and Senior years in University. It was a lab job. My job was to destructively destroy new hose connector designs and also, as a part of quality control, to destroy hoses picked at random off the assembly lines. Some of these hose connectors then, and I suppose now, were astounding. They had quick disconnect hose connectors......the lines could be pressurized at 2000 psia, and you could twist the connectors by hand and disconnect them with about a liquid drop of hydraulic fluid loss. Similary, you could reconnect them by hand. I would use a paper towel segment to document the fluid loss from disconnecting 2000 psia lines. Failing the hoses and connectors with hydraulic fluid was pretty much a relaxing job. When they failed they would just spurt an ounce or so of hydraulic fluid...that would be it. Failing hoses and connectors with compressed air was nerve racking. The hoses were in a thick steel cabinet..when a hose with compressed air failed, it went off with an explosive force. My body always jumped when the hose exploded.

It was only much later in life that I realized that I was often destroying hose couplings worth many hundreds of dollars, with some it was probably in the thousands of dollars. At 18 years, I had no clue.

The gas lines on my 68...everything included...pumps, filters, lines, fittings,..tools for bending..probably cost about $1000. This was in maybe 2008.
Final statement..Aeroquip stuff, today, is expensive. For sure based on nostalgia, I like to buy it. ....Oh, I forgot..as a 21 year old I flew from Dayton, Ohio to Jackson, Michigan on Aeroquip corporate airplane, a twin engine AeroCommander...I got to fly in the right seat!

 

[BBShark]

What about a formed line down behind the engine and connect the hose to that?

 

[mrvette]

For the FI on my Volvo 4 cyl 2343cc Bayliner 20' boat, I used Aeroquip hose, and the typical FI hose clamp with the screw/nut arrangement, not the usual worm hose clamp.....same with the Goat, and now the vette....

not so far away is a company called Hose Power on Industrial Loop, they have every damn hose setup you can imagine, from little **** like we talking about to fire hose, to stuff I just stare at in wonder.....:flash:

Needless to say, they have all the fittings also, and I think the prices are cheep, and the guys on the counter seem to know their **** pretty good too, so anyone need anything, I be happy to do some shopping for you all.....



:hi: