Plastic Fantastic 2

[SuperBuickGuy]

how much trimming?

round 2

win



okay - explanation time.edited The Corvette version of this isn't available yet - they copied what they did on the T5 and TKO - which is mill a slot in the tailshaft, then move the entire shifter over.edited I wanted it now, so I figured I'd have to do some adapting.... the solution is a different, shorter shifter with a 3" offset.edited It requires the cutting I did -edited but will (hopefully) allow me to use my stock console.editededited

Took the driveshaft to get shortened today - 4" is the number.edited granted, it should have been only 3" - I should have given myself a bit more slip the last time around (live and learn)... no harm, no foul but it was a pain to get out. Might have it back tomorrow - Friday is more likely....

Waiting on the speedo cable for the Dakota Digital (how simple was that? just replace the plug....edited

Tomorrow night I should finish the mount - been playing with my plasma table... so it's taken hours where had I just done it by hand - it'd be done.edited That said, once I get the table working.... it will be a game changer for me.editededited

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

cross member time

now 4

and weld

and cross member

need to finish welding, put the e-brake cable pulley in place then paint it.... but doneish

 

[bobs77vet]

I like that removeable cross member

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

time to finish up the cross member

make the e-brake work

weld some braces too

then paint

and done

then little stuff like - will an 18" wheel fit on the back - yes

and rubbing issue.... such a temptation to just grind that 1/4" off


then fix the clutch linkage

the car was a 4 speed car and those rods were likely there since new.... the pivot was half worn through - so it was time to make it a bit better

 

[rtj]

That is a great idea on the clutch linkage.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

That is a great idea on the clutch linkage.

just don't use Speedway heims - those lube nipples.... are pressed in.... ask me how I know...

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

would you just look at that

winking...

not winking

things get a bit crowded when I need to use the lift for the daily

wiring the speedo

imagine taking the interior apart to pull the old 3 wire cable out and putting in the 2 wire..


and lastly, I'll try to save the fenders by cranking up the coils

Not a lot happening because I'm waiting for key parts
so... driveshaft and shifter should be here Thursday... hoping to get it in before I leave on Sunday.... we will see.edited I could move it if the driveshaft arrives...edited

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Just one day late, but it's here

I need to check American Power train's tape measure... that isn't a 3" offset... it's a nice piece, for certain, but I need a real 3"

I'm not against it coming up from the center, but it is a bit annoying

seems my shifter isn't going to work either... maybe if I put a skull on it?


driveshaft tomorrow.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

apparently "shorten" means "put in a new tube".... I'm not upset about it because I could make it work.... but goodness, why?

I'll have to make tabs to weld the rear crossmember back in but I think I'll finally get to the cross bracing I intended before, so it will be like this until after SEMA
​​​​​​​
and yes, I used a body sledge hammer to create space

 

[bobs77vet]

that does look like a very healthy size drive shaft

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

So I'm at SEMA. Blogged it here https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/general-discussion/1308600-sema-2021#post1308802

lots of things going on. Love the 632 Chevy motor - but at 37,000, don't see myself affording it ever.... but I digress.

Optima Challenge.... they're not announcing next season yet. Not sure why - whether it's just going to be an east coast thing now, or they can't firm up tracks.... so we wait.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

welll... I'm back.edited SEMA was an absolute blast, however I did come back with a cold so not all is great on the home front.... ah well.

In news that relates to this.edited Talked to OUSCA (Optima challenge) about schedule - and there isn't a schedule yet.edited I got a feeling that there may not be a west-coast version.edited That would suck - ah well, the Wilwood Corvette Challenge is game as is the Silver State Challenge.edited I drove the route from Ely - I could see doing that.editededited
​​​​​​​I also.... this is my OPINION and in no way judging - the current crop of Optima cars aren't street cars anymore, and building a race car doesn't interest me.edited Sure, I'll make it faster but it's not what I am interested in building.
Anyway, where I left off
Talked to American Powertrain (who sold me the shifter).edited They'll send me the right offset after I call them on Monday (love SEMA - had a great talk with FiTech (I still don't think it was their fault - except they didn't call back - we talked, we're good), American Powertrain, Aldan American, and all sorts of other suppliers.editededited
time to put the brace back in place

fits

paint is drying

Oh look, and not even a little stock C3 suspension.edited

and I'm thinking about doing a PF3.... ZL1 rear, C7 front, 632 motor.... though this time, I'd have Art Morrison just bend me some new rails based off the dimensions of what I've built now
Next is a new fuel tank similar to what I built for PF1.... need more capacity, might also change out the lifters to get my idle oil pressure back.... next up is aero with a belly pan and 'stupid' wings.editededited
When I went to SEMA in 2018, I was glad my car wasn't there.edited This year, mine would have fit right in - takes twice as long to build but it's 4x a better build.editededited

 

[BBShark]

So I'm at SEMA. Blogged it here https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/general-discussion/1308600-sema-2021#post1308802

lots of things going on. Love the 632 Chevy motor - but at 37,000, don't see myself affording it ever.... but I digress.

Optima Challenge.... they're not announcing next season yet. Not sure why - whether it's just going to be an east coast thing now, or they can't firm up tracks.... so we wait.

Nice pix of SEMA. I would really like to go some time.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

So I'm at SEMA. Blogged it here https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/general-discussion/1308600-sema-2021#post1308802

lots of things going on. Love the 632 Chevy motor - but at 37,000, don't see myself affording it ever.... but I digress.

Optima Challenge.... they're not announcing next season yet. Not sure why - whether it's just going to be an east coast thing now, or they can't firm up tracks.... so we wait.

Nice pix of SEMA. I would really like to go some time.

I've 'hired' a lot of friends - if you ever want to go, let me know.

 

[BBShark]

Thanks! Maybe next year.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

cross members in place...edited

time to build a bigger tank....edited

side view

finding center of the gas filler


I'm building a 16 ga stainless steel tank.... should be about 27 fill gallons (about 28.5 gallons total capacity).edited Why now? simple, my dad has roll dies at his shop in Oregon - and I'm going there for Thanksgiving - then spend 10 minutes bending it up...

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

got the 3" offset today - works fantastic

it even clears the console cover (bonus)

so I posted a picture from SEMA about a GM shift lever - it was $234.00.... mine is stainless

closer

and done

 

[rtj]

Not sure on your budget on the 632 or how much you want to build yourself, but I did a lot of digging on info for my Camaro as it was previously powered by one.

Of course these are budget 632’s, but pre pandemic, I heard good things. Nyes, Ohio Crankshaft, and Blueprint. For a long time BP had free shipping.

After I run it as is for a while, might consider a low deck option from one of the above. Decided I don’t want to cut up my expensive headers.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Not sure on your budget on the 632 or how much you want to build yourself, but I did a lot of digging on info for my Camaro as it was previously powered by one.

Of course these are budget 632’s, but pre pandemic, I heard good things. Nyes, Ohio Crankshaft, and Blueprint. For a long time BP had free shipping.

After I run it as is for a while, might consider a low deck option from one of the above. Decided I don’t want to cut up my expensive headers.

the out the door price on the GM 632 is 30k ..... with a 50k warranty. And that is a complete motor with everything from the injection to the spark.

With that said, I dunno. for what you get, 30k is an amazingly good price but the fitting issues (the heads are literally 1/3 taller) would make any build interesting.... I think I can do it with my frame - I have lots of room to lower the motor in the chassis then simply run a dry sump system..... I'm so tempted given the prices I've been thrown for my car - but do I want to spend another 2 years on a build? I have other projects waiting.... I also want to go racing - and honestly, I can't keep PF2 and fund the build I'm envisioning....

and exhaust, if I do this, I'm going to make sidepipes that actually work

 

[rtj]

Well, it would be impressive. Not too many c3 street cars with 632s’s I can think of.

 

[mfain]

Looks like a great motor - but probably the wrong choice for a road racer. Too long a stroke - slow winding (relative) and too much torque down low (corner exit). Pretty heavy too. You are better off with a shorter stroke, higher winding motor with really good, forged internals, light weight pistons, good heads, and a robust valve train that will live. My personal choice was an aluminum, big bore (4.6"), short stroke (3.875") and high compression. It's only 515 CI, but it makes 850 hp at less than 7000 rpm, and it was built to be an 8-grand + motor.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Looks like a great motor - but probably the wrong choice for a road racer. Too long a stroke - slow winding (relative) and too much torque down low (corner exit). Pretty heavy too. You are better off with a shorter stroke, higher winding motor with really good, forged internals, light weight pistons, good heads, and a robust valve train that will live. My personal choice was an aluminum, big bore (4.6"), short stroke (3.875") and high compression. It's only 515 CI, but it makes 850 hp at less than 7000 rpm, and it was built to be an 8-grand + motor.

I agree with you and in full disclosure - I've been watching your motor build with a look to copying it (sorry, not sorry).

I also asked several questions in that vein at SEMA. Those heads bolt onto older blocks - granted, you have to use GM's intake as well (though if there's ever an opportunity to build a stack/flat EFI intake - this would be the perfect time).

Some considerations:
- I still don't know how the oil drive works, the 632 is coil-on-plug but there's not the normal 'stub' oil pump drive in the intake - it's has as close to a valley pan as I've ever seen on a BBC.
- those heads are TALL, without measuring, I'd say 1/3rd taller then a stock head. C3s are already hood-height-limiting so the motor must move down to accommodate them. With that said, in this game of fractions of an inch, being able to run a shallower dry sump pan could be the difference between it working and not....
- those heads are, basically, a LS head for the BBC but with a much straighter path - which means normal headers won't work
- in that same vein, I think there's a learning curve to make power with those heads.
- it has its own unique rocker system
- I have no idea its weight and no one knew there.... because the distributor is gone, I'd certainly move the engine back

I'm still on the fence on this, this would be a lot of fun to have, but I also think this would be a challenge to race in any venue - especially if it was done without traction control. One of the challenges with my current car is this - I can't count the times I've rolled into it and thought the clutch was slipping when it was, in fact, simply losing traction... add twice the hp and I can only imagine how much more of a problem that would be. Nice thing about NA, though, no peaky power.

and in really thinking out of the box - wonder what a flat plane crank would do here.... 632 ci at 10000 rpm would be an amazing sound but if the flat plane design netted GM 1/3 more NA hp then before.... probably dumb but it's what's rattling around in my head

 

[mfain]

Apparently there are big vibration issues with a flat plane crank in big inch motors. I have read that is why Ford stayed with such small motors, and GM more or less followed suit. Look at the C8R motor. I doubt you will find anyone offering a flat plane crank for a BBC. Another issue I am running across is parts availability to build a good motor - backorders on all kinds of stuff like cranks, rods, heads. I think the problem is centered around metals and forgings.

BTW, you mentioned moving the motor back. That is how I solved some of my height problem with the fabricated intake. The further back you shove the motor, the taller the available space becomes. Lowering the motor in the chassis needs to take into account how low the centerline of the crank is with respect to the above ground height of the pinion. As your driveshaft gets short, there isn't much tolerance for differences in heights due to driveshaft angle problems.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Apparently there are big vibration issues with a flat plane crank in big inch motors. I have read that is why Ford stayed with such small motors, and GM more or less followed suit. Look at the C8R motor. I doubt you will find anyone offering a flat plane crank for a BBC. Another issue I am running across is parts availability to build a good motor - backorders on all kinds of stuff like cranks, rods, heads. I think the problem is centered around metals and forgings.

BTW, you mentioned moving the motor back. That is how I solved some of my height problem with the fabricated intake. The further back you shove the motor, the taller the available space becomes. Lowering the motor in the chassis needs to take into account how low the centerline of the crank is with respect to the above ground height of the pinion. As your driveshaft gets short, there isn't much tolerance for differences in heights due to driveshaft angle problems.

the problem I had was I changed how I was doing the car mid-stream. My initial 'build' was a BBC in a slightly modified (read, bolt on) chassis. No EFI, no transmission change, no C5/Gen 5 clips. If I had started with the C5 front suspension, I could have easily lowered the motor (and moved it back) by using a dry sump system... but who knows, maybe I simply change the motor in this car - then move it back and down....

At this point, it'd make more fiscal sense to sell then build again. That said, supply issues are likely going to last for another year - but I have tons of work I can accomplish first... and with that said, I'm looking for a 73 or older shell. No frame, just the shell and good title... maybe even a convertible.... but first, a CTS is coming on Sunday, then the Buick wagon. I'll do the CTS motor swap and FJ40 trans swap simultaneously.

The thing about getting a shell, the expensive parts don't have to come until the end (and yes, tube chassis this time)...

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Intake stuff.... One of the worries about the current set up is it could take water in - this should solve it, might even help since there is more space for the air to turn into the motor

 

[phantomjock]

SBG-

I've been away a bit - so will back up to the new tank.

Looks like you have an opportunity to use the spare time at Thanksgiving to fab a nice diffuser to add to that space beneath the tank. Maybe an easy Remove & Replace style. Won't be full on race - but favorable with low- very low drag for the downforce it could provide. Something that has a slight roll to it and a few fins - you might consider the idea.

I am enroute to home and could share an idea or two. Let me know - you have my addy.

Seems the dimensions are pretty well know with your "blue tape tools!"

Cheers Jim

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

that tank was a 'simple' solution that simply doesn't work... it's not big enough...

but you bring up a question - is carbon fiber flammable?


One thing I don't like about my color combo of Dakota Digital dash is it's nearly impossible to read at speed... to time for a linear display with warning light


it's a good spot, no water gets there, it's in line of sight, and it's really easy to wire.

time to construct the cold air intake

things are so screwy, it's cheaper to use 304 4" stainless tube, mirror finish then it is to use aluminum

lay out

finished

and check for clearance
​​​​​​​
another issue - I need to seal the radiator to the core support... done


in other news, I fixed the e-brake and I correctly wired the speedo.edited Tomorrow (hopefully) I can go do a loop with it and my '40 to set the speedometer.... it's funny, it's the little things that are most useful...

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I answered my own question... 400c = 752f.... it will oxidize but stop if the fuel source is removed.... I think I need to learn how to lay carbon fiber... a splitter, defuser, skirts....

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

it annoys me when I put the dash all back together then need to pull it apart again... the brown wire that needs to go to the blue wire is inside...edited
​​​​​​​

 

[bobs77vet]

i see the energizer bunny is still going strong.....that cold air intake has got to help