Plastic Fantastic 2

[SuperBuickGuy]

package it up to roll it out.... radiator

yeah, doesn't fit.... ah well - it's not far off

side shot




time to move it out of the way for a couple weeks
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[SuperBuickGuy]

Forgive me for the off-topic - but I figured some might enjoy this.... I built a trailer last summer with the idea that I'd put a hydraulic ram on it (not lift, just prevent banging when it came down).... then I went to SEMA and Firestone was there. I talked to an engineer and asked - with the comment be nice because I sometimes have silly ideas. I told him about this and he was really enthused.... granted, I already had the bags -- but at least it was like verification pre-flight.
soooooo... cleaning up projects that I have the parts for..... like the airbag tilt

first, this is the angleedited



well shoot, it's almost like I planned this (I didn't, actually, but I'll take lucky over good every time)


I'm going to make 36" ramps.... which I'd have had the material for except I built the water tray for my plasma.... well, I guess that balances lucky


which, if I was photocompetent would clearly show a 8* angle rather then the 13*

I know in the 4x4 world that's a 'who cares' and in that world you'd be right.... but I live in many worlds including one that is going to be hauling a Renault
so there we go.edited verbal diarrheaedited


compressed


one bolt through the top, two through the bottom.... 6000# bags

and it works.edited lifts, lowers - I think what I'll like the most is it can work as an anti-bang device... pull the valve stem when I'm wheeling and away we go


there it is, airbagged up


now to install the air compressors on my Colorado and/or Suburban (there's already one on the FJ40)

 

[SRountree]

Looks nice. What size is it?

 

[OZgreen69]

Is good to be off topic some time !
I have an alloy trailer custom fabricated who ended up in a cluster **** :suicide:, anyway long story short I am using a hydraulic high lift jack to tilt the bed. But now you get me thinking !!!
I wonder if those bags could tilt the bed with a car on it ? This would save me some grunting !!
Thanks for the pictures.

And you said Renault ??

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Looks nice. What size is it?

16' long, 8' wide

Is good to be off topic some time !
I have an alloy trailer custom fabricated who ended up in a cluster **** :suicide:, anyway long story short I am using a hydraulic high lift jack to tilt the bed. But now you get me thinking !!!
I wonder if those bags could tilt the bed with a car on it ? This would save me some grunting !!
Thanks for the pictures.

And you said Renault ??

most semi-trucks are fully suspended on air - so figure 100,000 lbs give or take a twinkie. The bags under this are 6000 lb each so 12,000 lbs of lifting force.
the latest-thing in car trailers is full bag suspension so it lays the deck on the ground - to be honest, I didn't want a perishable spring system. That said, bags have come a long ways in the last 30 years and they are a good option for a lot of things. I'd never seen one tilt but a comment got me thinking, so I bought bags - then at SEMA I talked to the Firestone rep... he was really encouraging.
in this case I'd love to say I planned it perfectly, but I didn't - that said it worked out perfect - where the cross beams where was the perfect spot to put a bag that lifts 11" there is no reason I can't lift any load that is within the its gross weight (8,000 lbs). You only lift about 1/3 the weight of the car when you tilt.... so there it is

if you do bags, there's a bunch of places where they fully describe how bags are built and how to size them for your application. I needed a 4" compressed, 11" extended that could resist some side load.... thus what I bought, the double convoluted gives a good compression with the load rating I needed. As I mentioned before, they make bags that can suspend a lot more and have longer lift.... I suspect there will be a lot of people who take this idea and run with it. I've seen air lift jacks that essentially have two steel tubes to keep the bag from rolling.... but when compared to hydraulic, it really doesn't compare.... it's the same speed lifting as hydraulic.

It is a Renault Alpina - that he decided not to buy.... ah well, I needed to get these bags off my project shelf

 

[phantomjock]

It is a Renault Alpina - that he decided not to buy.... ah well, I needed to get these bags off my project shelf

I guess if you're worried about going off thread - you could post a pic of the Alpina on the trailer!

Nice Trailer - and Mod!

Cheers - Jim

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

It is a Renault Alpina - that he decided not to buy.... ah well, I needed to get these bags off my project shelf

I guess if you're worried about going off thread - you could post a pic of the Alpina on the trailer!

Nice Trailer - and Mod!

Cheers - Jim

he decided not to buy it (and continue focusing on his 77 nut n bolt)

 

[phantomjock]

May have been a SMART move.

I'm working Renault engines/parts/heads for the SR! Most parts are from Lithuania/Poland/etc. Cheap (usually) but shipping is a Killer!

Cheers - Jim

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

May have been a SMART move.

I'm working Renault engines/parts/heads for the SR! Most parts are from Lithuania/Poland/etc. Cheap (usually) but shipping is a Killer!

Cheers - Jim

I didn't know how to nicely say that those cars have issues (I refuse to be that guy who's always negative about everything that isn't my choice, if you buy it - no matter how 'bad' it may be, I'm the one people call to come help them fix it...) - but his sister flips cars in France, so I asked him "so, is that a better price then your sister could get in France".... I figured he'd talk it out with his sister and she'd be the bad guy ....

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

move the front suspension back 3/4" or move the flare....


I'm really leaning towards moving the flare and then giving it more flare along with a slightly different shape.... cut right there between the rear of the wheel and the gills.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

time to remove the body bolts

mmmm... good sawblades

a good example.... the first two came out just fine (motor end), second took a bit of lube....edited

the last, a neanderthaledited


this is more for me - but I'm moving everything back 3/4" so knowing where the steering was will be useful when I build new motor mounts

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I bought the coating for the frame.... so once it's squared, plated, shortened, made pretty... a coat of paint and it'll be good for a long, long time
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[SuperBuickGuy]

a mistake... and what will stop me from completely getting the body off


up we go, hmm, nose low


once I removed the bumper brackets, and the clutch fork... up


and stopped here


did you guess the problem?edited the 68-73 rear curls under the rear valance .... had I put those jackstands on dollies - I could have moved the frame forward then completed the lift-off.... and my jack said "oh hell no" so tomorrow get a new jack then finish this.
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[SuperBuickGuy]

So I did do jack today... twice
new hotness

old brokenness

wait.... which one is broken?

I was all ready to proclaim how my Costco jack outlasted 2 HF jacks.... which, old brokenness did... problem was that was a factory sealed new one that was broken when they put it in the box.... ah well, just 2 hours I'll never get back
putting the new, new one to work

and the divorce is final




finally get to use this cart


this didn't last long, but it fits so I can move stuff around if needed




stiff stripped off..... more to come

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[SuperBuickGuy]

time to use my frame floor

oh yes, and tape measures

it really wasn't that far off (within GM manufacturing tolerances for the day).... but I can do much better, so I will


the challenge, of course, is getting it square to the floor (after verifying squareness of the frame)

lots of this action

It's close, I'll let it settle over night then do the front.edited The back is 1/16" off square, so I'll fix that as well... but that is for later this week

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

time to make this real - of course, that means cutting it apart and making it look pretty.

the first step is to weld plates on the rearmost channels to hold things in place



measuring process


and it's cut apart.....

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Oh look, Jeep on a trailer.... what keeps sbg from PF2? yeah, a blasted Heep.


in other news, the Colorado hauls the Jeep even better then the Hummer did.

yet I still did get to fun stuff



even had a minute to hit the frame with a wire wheel in prep for welding the frame.edited I think I'm going to weld it with the motor in place then pull the motor, flip the frame then weld and brace the rest....

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

time to start welding.... motor is in and it's resting level and on its suspension points.... and the frame wasn't flat, so I'll weld it flat in this processedited

look at the 'weld' to the left of the mig weld.... this is why welding the frame is so importantedited


this hole gets filled too


and the fun of straightening the usually bent rear brace


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[SuperBuickGuy]

weld frame to make square..... and beat on frame....edited


along with hanging weights, I did some flame wrench straightening .... frame is dead nuts square, but it has a slight rack to it (thus the weights)


someone told me once that it wasn't possible to shim the side pipes up with washers..... to that person, don't look


the problem, it turns out, I'm fixing anyway with a new driver's side motor mount (so it clears the steering shaft


time to start welding plates on


other side


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[SuperBuickGuy]

how to eat an elephant

time to fill holes


make squares


weld into place




this brace isn't totally needed but it will keep the frame solid when I drop the cradle

finally weld the upper shock mount


more soon. I need to finish up, the more I look at this frame the worse it is.... passenger rail actually bows up.... for those curious, the datum line is the bar that runs behind the seats.edited it's square and squares everything I put on.. so where the metal goes to reach that point (as long as it doesn't interfere with the body) is fine.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

today's fun, motor mount
the problem, passenger side is low

CAD assisted design

now in metal

I need to do the front side now.editededited

Then onto the passenger side.edited I started here because the mount was pretty floppy with all the metal removed, now it isn't so I can move back to leveling the motor in the chassis (once I'm finished with the driver's side)

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

time to finish up the front
driver side


passenger side

off a bit


which meant a quick install and removal of the motor
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chop and move up


then turn it around and get to work on the back

 

[rtj]

You are probably going to inspire someone to make/market a C5 conversion front clip.

 

[phantomjock]

First, I guess it would be very inappropriate -- now the work is done and looking good - to suggest or ask - wouldn't using motor plates have been a whole lot easier? :bomb:
As long as the frame rails are straight - they would have bypassed the fix you've made. But, most likely better having done that - you're reasonably sure its all squared up!:clap:

You are probably going to inspire someone to make/market a C5 conversion front clip.

I've been pouring over similar discussions on the LS1, Pro-touring, Lateral-g forums - I bet there is such a market - buy the K-Member seems to be the make or break deal, and track width as 69427 wanted to keep his inside stock fender flares. A lot of variations to deal with, no doubt.

Some interesting communities and projects using C5/6 components - like 29fordhotrod who is using c4 bits - but similar adaptations likely possible for 5/6 and a simple crossmember for his K-Member/steering mount.
http://1929fordhotrod.com/johnsblog/wp-content/gallery/chassis-plans/frame0005-blog.jpg
Here is a link to his plans page - it might be 90% of a "Conversion" idea for C4 front to C3 - C5 just a slight "twist" maybe:
http://1929fordhotrod.com/johnsblog/198487-c4-corvette-chassis-plans-model-ford-hot-rod/

Cheers - Jim

 

[rtj]

Thanks Jim, interesting.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

if the frame is straight... the wheels are in the right spots but how the frame connects those points is a bit, well, avant garde. and I did seriously consider a motor plate, but (and this isn't something I've put out there) my plan is to run this in the Optima Challenge. C3s can compete against the older muscle cars - but there are limits to what you can do to the frame (no roll cage, for instance).... at this point, they haven't said you can't substitute in newer suspensions (not exactly, but running with it now) - so I expect this to be a one-year shot before they close the loophole since i imagine the next 'cowboy' will simply rebody a C7 with a C3 shell and that will be the end of that.... long explanation, but that's why I didn't do motor plates. They do allow bracing (think aftermarket frames) and I may do that.... which is kind of the basis of the question at the end of today's post.

as for kits, give or take the Detroit speed kit is a C5 front without the C5 geometry... what I expect is people clipping in these rear suspensions. I remember a discussion on here about how to improve the C3 suspension (it was talking Guldstrand stuff).... that, ultimately, is what would be the logical step of that discussion....

so we got a bit of snow today

as is normal, everything shut down.edited I went to work, enjoyed the commute because it was pretty much just me
so I came home and did stuff

first box the rear attachment points in


started boxing the bottom - my plan is to flip the frame over the weld the bottom



what I haven't decided is if I need to attach the kick-ups to the cross bar on the old frame....edited

the frame could use some strengthening and perhaps now is the time to try some new things.... I dunno


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[phantomjock]

As always -- Great Work! I know you posted the snow depth to make me feel guilty about not working on my project! :stirpot:

Not to worry - it's mid-60s today and once I get some parts orders in...

BTW - Did you catch the word I posted regarding the C7 bearings? That's my big order. NOTE- GMParts Direct has a month long discount sale going on too! (but RockAuto is a bit cheaper).:trumpet:

Cheers - Jim

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

As always -- Great Work! I know you posted the snow depth to make me feel guilty about not working on my project! :stirpot:

Not to worry - it's mid-60s today and once I get some parts orders in...

BTW - Did you catch the word I posted regarding the C7 bearings? That's my big order. NOTE- GMParts Direct has a month long discount sale going on too! (but RockAuto is a bit cheaper).:trumpet:

Cheers - Jim

figures that I already ordered all the bits for the front... I need to look, though, about rear. thx!

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

first step tonight was figuring out what is wrong with this stupid thing.... it goes through consumables very quickly.edited blew the dust out... didn't make a difference.edited checked the torch (pulled it apart), nothing there seemed terribly amiss.... but now I'm out of consumables...



then boxed this



next is flip the frame over... so I don't make a mess... drain the diff...

looks good, only had 30k miles..
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[phantomjock]

Any chance you can get a weight on the frame and the body separate? Just that they are apart now and would be useful. I'm going to post a "CG Guestimator" I put together in another thread.

Cheers - Jim