Plastic Fantastic 2

[SuperBuickGuy]

difference between Camaro and Corvette spec. The Camaro have a larger flange and larger studs along with no ABS sensor in the hub. Otherwise, they're identical in depth and rear bolt pattern.

more work done
time to set the uppers


and a slight issue, the upper arms are too far inboard (1/2" per side)
no big deal... in other news, Z06 wheels







no optical illusion.... fronts need about 1" more offset, rear need another 1 1/2" width.edited
In other news the rotors don't really clear 19s


with that said, all I have to do is remove the vibration dampers - put there so people don't whine about rattly brakes (and you won't hear over the 427)... I dunno, I hate to say I may need wider front flares but I may need wider front flares....edited

 

[vette427sbc]

Moving along nicely! I like those wheels too... I assume youre using the stock C5 track width? Wider=cooler

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Moving along nicely! I like those wheels too... I assume youre using the stock C5 track width? Wider=cooler

I like the wheels, but .... I'm not sure I want to re-flare ..... although, adding another inch to the front width .... yeah, conflicted.
Those wheels a seller brought by my house to see if they fit - the biggest issue right now (still thinking this through) is the rears aren't wide enough.

yep, stock C5 track width. I honestly cannot wait to see whether my thought - that combining the C5/6 front suspension with the 2010-2016 Camaro rear would be a marriage made in heaven or like my first wife - looked great in pictures but wasn't stable.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

dagnabit.... but first, success

my coilovers


they're less expensive then the QA1s, and are a better product.... good to know, right? and yes, made in USA

they'll go somewhere around there


this tool.... I love it but


all this work you see, I get to do it again



so here's the deal - I have the shop drawings for the C5 Corvette.edited I've been using them and following them faithfully.edited Tonight I started on the move the upper arms out project and thought "that doesn't look right" then "don't argue with your tape measure".... turns out I should have argued with my memory.

GM gives you the dimensions to the bolt head.edited The first clue was my Joes alignment level - suddenly the top of the tire was pointing out, I'm setting it up as neutral.edited Then I had to adjust the toe wayyyyyy out.edited Whisky Tango Foxtrot, I queried.editededited

the dimension GM gives across the car from bolt to center to bolt is 19 11/16.edited That equals 39 3/8 from bolt head to bolt head.... so where did I screw up?edited I was measuring from flat to flat...edited that is almost exactly 1" from the bolt head..... so it's out 2".... I should have remembered that because in my research I had to find out the dimension of a bolt head (they're 1/2" tall) and weirdly, it doesn't matter the size of the suspension bolt - they're all 1/2" tall (top to flange)

So later this week I'll make it 2" narrower then reset the toe where it belongs.... ugh.edited All is normal with the world because I'm usually the warning

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

here we go again


chop chop


now floppy again


lining up the marks


tack back together


dead on



I've set the alignment cams to zero degrees.edited I still need to double check the altitude of the front and rear of the upper arm, but once that's done I'll burn it in for real (again again) then start making it look I know what I'm doing

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

evaporust says 12 hours, 70 degrees.... we will see - this corvette jack was submerged in the back of my Corvette when I got it.editededited

it's submerged with my lathe center - I figure that's a fair test....


onward... yeah, looks the same


I learned a long time ago, you cannot have too many plumb bobs


and now...edited




looks the same except now it's where it's going to liveedited



hopefully Sunday I'll get this all in place


and make the mounts for this

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[rtj]

I admire your ambition. The easiest way (and cheapest) to increase the front flares for you might be to split at the bonding strip and lay in a 1” strip of suitable material. If you wanted you could have a open gap at the door.

No, I haven’t tried it, but that’s the plan for my bolt on l88 flares (1” strip under edge). Then foam and fiberglass.

 

[mfain]

Here's a time and labor intensive solution for fender flares. I completely revised the suspension on my old NASA-spec Ford Focus and ended up with a 4 inch wider track width. I built "poster board" flares, covered them with fiberglass, sanded them smooth, pulled molds off the "bucks", and then pulled flares from the molds.

Pappy

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I admire your ambition. The easiest way (and cheapest) to increase the front flares for you might be to split at the bonding strip and lay in a 1” strip of suitable material. If you wanted you could have a open gap at the door.

No, I haven’t tried it, but that’s the plan for my bolt on l88 flares (1” strip under edge). Then foam and fiberglass.

I'm leaning more and more towards just getting wheels that fit. While it would be nice to have an off-the-shelf solution for when these wheels go out of style and are irreplaceable; I knew I was going to need at least 2 custom wheels anyway (for the front). That said, because of where the hub is, I may end up doing a lot more flare work anyway.

as for moving them out. 1/4" plastic - glue strips then shape.... that said, it is really hard to extend a curve because you usually end up with a flat spot in the transition that looks odd.

 

[bobs77vet]

seems like custom wheels are appropriate for this build!

 

[rtj]

I’ve seen a few cars done like this, I thing they space the fender out at the bonding strip.

Maybe not as easy as what you are suggesting.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

beautiful car and beautiful job... dang.

I was watching Bitchin Rides (Kindigit) and their Mercedes gull wing build. I saw the car at SEMA, so I really watched with interest how they fixed the issues with that car. the one I found most interesting was when he was rebuilding the fender and made basically an air mold using dental floss as the backer.... I think doing that, then tape, the foam behind it, then laying glass and resin would be a pretty straight-forward way of doing it.... but with fiberglass, whatever way works for you is the right one. What I wish they had described was how they kept their gloves from becoming hairy with fibers as they worked the glass mat into place.

there is a side-issue for me. I glued the flares on with the same adhesive GM uses to adhere truck bed sides - I suspect that if I tried to take it apart there, I'd fail badly.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

first some CAD

then some lay out

dang, I even impressed myself with this freehand

then a few bends and fitting


​​​​​​​which is where I stopped for the night.

 

[vette427sbc]

Looking good! One thing worth mentioning... the C5 suspension is designed with a certain scrub radius in mind. A wheel that fits this will likely open up your available wheel options considering how popular the C5/6 platform is. Cost savings from off the shelf wheels may help with your re-flare decision

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

carrying on



even clears the radiator support

lots of finish welding to do but it's driveable now.... which means I'm taking it apart further



time to eyeball for the coil overs


tomorrow the springs arrive but I think the next step will be finish bolting the front support in place, cut the 4 body bolts, remove a couple hoses and wires then lift off the chassis.editededited

 

[69427]

Looking good, man!

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

springs came




time to make a lower control arm mount



the rear is going to require a bunch more work to make it work (which really isn't a huge deal - the entire purpose of this was to solve the rear suspension issues and now spend $12,000 for a bandaid).editededited

the issue is the shock needs to lean at least 20 degrees over and preferably 30

and it will... just have to remove that redundant frame rail

front isn't bad, but it has an interesting issue


see the stabilizer.... it interferes.... but doesn't on the driver's side.



this tank may end up on the car - or at least the expensive bits...edited


in the vein of recycling... I had a bunch of parts cut for a guldstrand rear suspension... not using the system, but the parts make great upper shock mounts

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

ah turkey day.... not much accomplished other then driving 400 miles
but still time to talk ofsets


whether anyone likes it or not, 20s is all that fit... .20x10 front 20x12 rear (though this could go to 14 if I so choose)
front 2 3/4" = 69.85 mm,edited 20x10 - 254 mm width.edited divide by 2 = 127.edited 127-69.85= 57.15 mm or 58mm positive offset on a 10 inch rim (which is a custom size, the best I've found is in the 40s)

rear 4"

math 20x12 = 304.8/2 = 153.9-101.6 (4 inches) = 52.3.... interestingly, the rears tend to be nearer zero or further out in the 70 range.

oh yeah and one more thing.... yes, that is suspended on the spring



did that by welding tabs on the top



hopefully Sunday I can start making the rear suspended

next up, I'll probably buy the tires to double check my measurements. One thing, though, about the front is if I extend the flares 1/2", then there are off-the-shelf solutions. That said custom wheels start at 600 and go up from there, so at some point, I may just say heck with it

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

bmw 750il wheels work

and yeah, Custom Image Flares got me again.... the opening isn't the same right to left; that said, it's not a huge thing to fix - but it does give flesh to the warning I got from the guy whose C3 was the template for the flares (don't finish the flares until you have the wheels)
but the offset works

and it doesn't hit the wheel opening when turning


thankfully the right side is correct.... so it's just a matter of copying




back side looks good.... the 'real' wheels will be wider, but this, for now, works



''
*sigh*

​​​​​​​
I should point out, that the wheel will be out about another 1/2" in the front - because of the rotor and the brake mounting bracket.... so it was going to get changed anyway

 

[phantomjock]

Lookin' really great. I like those wheels too.

A quick question - Are the jack stands holding the front arms at full compression? I didn't see a comment earlier, I suspect so, but inquiring minds...

Cheers - JIm

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

yep

 

[69427]

so to more detail.

............................

another tip - the front control arm hole is 3/4" lower then the rear hole.... this picture is close to where it needs to live
Use the hole where the lines are drawn (rear) - those holes are supposed to be in the same spot on either side.edited That said, trust but verify.

I'm considering angling the lower control arms on my replacement crossmember this winter. I'm curious what angle that 3/4" difference ends up making. Have you measured it, or if you can just give the the center to center measurement of the lower control arm I'll just do the math.

Thanks.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

my thumb is on the front of the a-arm - that's .8 degrees


the upper arm is 12 degrees

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

leveled the nose and it is close enough that I'm not going to mess with it - Keep in mind that I'm painting this black (or a dark color) so edges really blend



progress pictures





I need to brace the rear assembly, before the body lift

then I need to lay the coil over over... so that's a notch



how, in all that's holy, does fiberglass look like it rusted?edited


ughedited


​​​​​​​thankfully I have sawzall blades.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

a few minutes and got it on the ground

a bit of frame notching

and voila a roller again





it does need the wider rear tires..
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[SuperBuickGuy]

front brakes - I finally decided to go backwards. I cut the ears off the C5 spindles thinking I'd fabricate a bracket that attaches to the hub bolts. I seriously over thought it. The current plan is to cut the height of the ears down, drill new holes, then build a backing plate for the ears (to add strength back). Photos soon, hopefully while we're milling them

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

moving along time to make the coil overs permanent


it's getting close to time to get a few more tab plates lasered out


so when I do the finish work, all this will get boxed and finished


for now it's strong enough to drive


all I did on the lower arm was redrill the hole


now to connect the steering wheel to the front


basically, take the u-joint off the top and replace it with the lower one.... and in this case, had I not had the u-joint, I may have done this a bit different....edited


heat removes it


test


the issue


basically heat puts the new one back on....edited


and now it steers.. what's left there is to replace the motor mount and clean up the frame... which I'll do when I pull the body off (likely Sunday)

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

hateful task ahead


but I finally afforded myself a power bleeder for when I get brakes


random rear picture


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[SuperBuickGuy]

so I have new spindles and plan b is this


I'll mill the tabs into spindle and basically take the same amount off both the spindle and the caliper.edited I figure the reduced metal thickness will be offset by the tabs being against the spindle/hub..edited

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

No, I haven't forgotten this.edited My friend with the mill is on vacation until early next year, so the front brake/spindle mods get to wait, also I have a stack of postponed projects that really need movement (e.g. Colorado air compressor, rack, lights, sliders; Suburban stuff).edited Also, the next step after the brakes is pull the body off.edited That, of course, fills my shop and lift - so the other projects plus my wife's craptastic Jeep JK Rubicon (which is leaking coolant, again) means I need to put this on a 2 month or so hold... leaving the body on the frame makes it far easier to move.

in other news, I've been building a plasma table so I can make nice pieces for the frame work that is soon to come