rag joint replacement

keywestjack

keywestjack

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Apr 24, 2008
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I think I saw it some where here, but cant find it. I want to replace my steering rag joint with a better alternative. Is there a universal joint that I can use?
 
keywestjack said:
I think I saw it some where here, but cant find it. I want to replace my steering rag joint with a better alternative. Is there a universal joint that I can use?
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They are universal, in every auto part shop (check offroading stores) and all over ebay (search "steering u joints").
All you need it one that match your shafts size/pattern.

In my case with the borgeson it was 1" 48 spline to 3/4" DD IIRC.
 
yeah, what denpo said

I did this to mine awhile ago - works awesome. Of course, at the same time I lost the power steering stuff, and readjusted the box.... it seriously drives like a rack n pinion
P7290001.jpg
 
Is that a Flaming River? Did you have to do any cutting or resizing? It does not seem to have any down side.
 
I'm fairly sure it's made by Borgeson

There's no cutting or resizing needing. it does make it a touch easier, if you have two people to do the work, to pull the steering column bolts and slide it together. However, and despite all the naysayers on corvette forum, you can get it together by the two shafts apart, then fitting the joint and sliding them back together (they say the world will end in a ball of fire and that the anti-christ will appear - didn't happen)

There isn't any downside as far as driving and all upside since you have more precise control.
 
The F-body guys use S-10 universals and shafts. Not sure if that can be adapted to a c3 though but other GM's use the universal setups.

DSC01194_zps21a3a8f8.jpg
 
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A frequent poster over the last many years has been Jim O'Shea. He has posted on this forum, CF, and also the NCRS forum. He has a lot of reference material on corvettefaq.com. He is long since retired, but was previously a Saginaw GM employee who was responsible for much of the design and development of the C2/C3 power steering and also steering wheel columns.
To summarize a lot of his reference material, because of potential liability problems with failed steering system, GM pumped a large amount of money into what appears to be, by modern standards, an archaic and now, low technology steering system. Nevertheless, the C2/C3 system is, at least way with GM specification parts, is EXTREMELY reliable. The "rag joint," a kinder phrase is "flexible joint" is very reliable and has redundancy failure modes to prevent a complete failure of steering control. I doubt that the manufacturer's of the U-Joint you show would have spent anything more than a tiny fraction of what GM spent on their "rag joint" to ensure reliability.
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Just an anecdote. I good long term friend of mine has spent over $50,000 on his 67 BB coupe on technology improvements. He spent $5000 for a custom stainless steel header system for his BB. The header guy wanted him to get rid of his stock PS steering system, since the steering gear assembly interfered with the headers. So he bought a rack and pinion power steering assembly that is a popular advertised replacement for the stock PS steering assembly. He had steering problems. He bought the non-power steering version of the rack and pinion...no improvement. He has oversteer problems with his customised set up. I've heard all the many many details of his steering problems. I've decided to stick with plain jane OEM power steering...including that "rag joint" until I feel safe to change. For a BB, Hooker Headers will clear the stock steering assembly. (Well, they sometimes need a little hammer dent.)
 
68/70Vette said:
A frequent poster over the last many years has been Jim O'Shea. He has posted on this forum, CF, and also the NCRS forum. He has a lot of reference material on corvettefaq.com. He is long since retired, but was previously a Saginaw GM employee who was responsible for much of the design and development of the C2/C3 power steering and also steering wheel columns.
To summarize a lot of his reference material, because of potential liability problems with failed steering system, GM pumped a large amount of money into what appears to be, by modern standards, an archaic and now, low technology steering system. Nevertheless, the C2/C3 system is, at least way with GM specification parts, is EXTREMELY reliable. The "rag joint," a kinder phrase is "flexible joint" is very reliable and has redundancy failure modes to prevent a complete failure of steering control. I doubt that the manufacturer's of the U-Joint you show would have spent anything more than a tiny fraction of what GM spent on their "rag joint" to ensure reliability.
.........................
Just an anecdote. I good long term friend of mine has spent over $50,000 on his 67 BB coupe on technology improvements. He spent $5000 for a custom stainless steel header system for his BB. The header guy wanted him to get rid of his stock PS steering system, since the steering gear assembly interfered with the headers. So he bought a rack and pinion power steering assembly that is a popular advertised replacement for the stock PS steering assembly. He had steering problems. He bought the non-power steering version of the rack and pinion...no improvement. He has oversteer problems with his customised set up. I've heard all the many many details of his steering problems. I've decided to stick with plain jane OEM power steering...including that "rag joint" until I feel safe to change. For a BB, Hooker Headers will clear the stock steering assembly. (Well, they sometimes need a little hammer dent.)
Click to expand...

Borgeson supplies GM with those u-joints e.g. Astro vans and full size vans are an awesome place to harvest those if you don't want to spend the money. So I'm not sure where you're coming from.

GM used the rag joints to keep vibrations from the driver - at the expense of driver feedback.
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
Borgeson supplies GM with those u-joints e.g. Astro vans and full size vans are an awesome place to harvest those if you don't want to spend the money. So I'm not sure where you're coming from.

GM used the rag joints to keep vibrations from the driver - at the expense of driver feedback.
Click to expand...

(1) Just filling in some background info about the rag joint that I thought was interesting. If the u-joints were used as OEM, I"d then feel safe with them.

(2)...at the expense of driver feedback. Yep. A big disappointment with my 68 stock PS steering. It's classical GM from the 60's. Absolutely no road feedback at all. I can steer the car through turns, park it, etc using the tip of my little finger. That the steering wheel takes no force to turn is a problem with the 68's stiff suspension. On rough surface parts of the freeway, the ride gets really bumpy, and my body (not the car body, ME) starts flopping around. With my hand on the steering wheel my body motion translates into steering wheel motions which makes the car a heads up experience to drive in a straight line.
Going into a tight turn ...freeway on or off ramp....driving my 08, it takes arm muscle power to hold the wheel in a turn, whereas as I said before, the 68 has no feedback at all.
 
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Did you have to do any cutting, grinding, etc. to make it fit? Did you move the steering column back? Thanks, Jack
 
don't tell anyone, there are some who think this tip is sacrilege, but I simply pried back on the steering shaft enough to slip it into place. Worked slick.

If you do drop the column to slide the column back, be sure you have a helper - holding the joint square while pushing the column onto the joint is difficult (not impossible, but certainly hits "11" in cuss words) :crutches:
Also, when using the take-it-apart method, the column ... how to describe, the nose of the shaft (closest to the front) needs to be as high as you can possibly get it to slide into the joint. I did all of this by myself.... and leads to the last bit of advice if you choose option 2.
Just when you think you've pushed as hard as you dare to get them to slide together.... push about 2x harder - it'll slide right in.... :flash:

*just fyi - the reason I dropped the shaft was to put the pedals in for my manual transmission conversion.
 
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