Near future project: Aluminum radiator support

[69427]

Finished up the hood hinges the other week. Took a touch more weight out of them by eliminating excess material.



Six ounces less each, but it's up high and in front of the wheelbase. I sanded them smooth and painted them black for a stock look.

 

[BBShark]

The radiator support looks great. Did you make the U shaped cradles that have the rubber cushion in them (that hold the bottom of the radiator)?

Also, it looks like you found a rivet for the hinge?

 

[69427]

The radiator support looks great. Hey thanks. Did you make the U shaped cradles that have the rubber cushion in them (that hold the bottom of the radiator)? Yeah. I welded three shaped pieces of aluminum together to form the bottom and sides of each cradle. (Thanks again for letting me use your part for a pattern. Hopefully it arrived back in the mail in good condition?)

Also, it looks like you found a rivet for the hinge?

I used 5/16" carriage bolts for the hinges. The round head just looked kinda natural in that application. I ground the underhead square section so that it was round (matching the remaining nonthreaded section) and then cut the bolt to length (about 3/8"), slid the bolt into the two parts of the hinge, and then welded a washer on the other (interior) side to keep everything captured.

 

[JeffP1167]

Didn't you gain some weight back by painting the parts :rain:

 

[69427]

While I'm there.....

I pulled the radiator and support out the other week to do a small contour tweak to the right side of the support. I had to quick put the support in the car last summer without a trial fit to get the car running for a last minute track day that opened up in Topeka. No mechanical problems with the support, but I did notice at one of the bends that there was a very slight rubbing interference with the hood. I took everything apart and cut some of the welds open, added a little more bend to the top portion, and then rewelded the cuts. A bit of paint and back in business. While assembling everything I noticed how "heavy" the shroud upper bracket was. I thought, hey, it's a simple piece with a simple function, so why not replace it with something lighter. Spent about a half hour on it.



It's only a few ounce reduction, but as I've said numerous times it's "up front and up high" (and free). I then put a coat of semi-gloss black on it to draw a little less attention in case I accidentally find myself at an NCRS gathering.



Assuming I'm happy with it, down the road I'll drill and tap a couple pieces of aluminum to weld to it for some captured nuts (similar to the original). Right now I'm just using some nylon type locknuts to save some time.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Getting down to the details LOL

I see more

chromed steel water neck? ->alu!
Pig heavy alternator,get a mini denso
alterantor bracket, canton has a replacement in alu.

 

[69427]

Getting down to the details LOL Yeah, I think the days of getting the big reduction numbers are over. I see more

chromed steel water neck? ->alu! I believe it's potmetal (it's non-magnetic) under the chrome. I'll weigh it the next time I change the thermostat.
Pig heavy alternator,get a mini denso This is the lightest production alternator I've found (11#). I took my HF digital scale to the junkyard a couple years ago and weighed a bunch of alternators on the shelf in the yard garage. Nothing lighter than my 36 amp original. I'd like to keep a "stock" appearance, meaning a Delco alternator, but I do have a freebie 8# Mitsubishi alternator (off some industrial equipment) in the barn that I am considering, if I can get the connector pinout information.
alterantor bracket, canton has a replacement in alu.

The main support bracket for the alternator is aluminum (about 1.5#, and pictures in one of these threads), while the adjuster arm is still steel. I've been mulling over doing the arm in aluminum, but I'm still deciding the exact shape to keep the arm from buckling under compression from belt tension.

I appreciate your taking the time to suggest stuff. As I mentioned earlier, it's getting harder to get additional weight out of this car, and I can always use the help. :thumbs:

 

[turtlevette]

did you take off the chrome bumpers yet?

You're really good fabricating aluminum parts. How about an aluminum hood?

Remove inner fenders.

Take off body panels and sand the back side to make them thinner.

Lightweight battery.

What does the car weigh now?

 

[Twin_Turbo]

the mitsu alt is probably a nippon denso, have a pic???

 

[turtlevette]

the mitsu alt is probably a nippon denso, have a pic???

Or if he wants to retain an Americian looking unit the CS 121 8.8 pounds like i have. The denso 98 mm is 5.68 pounds.

I can't remember. Does he have wilwoods on there? Dynalites are only around 2.5 pounds.

c4 corvette aluminum driveshaft. Shortened C4 aluminum halfshafts.

Cut all the steel ahead of the rad out.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

dynas are way too small. He has C4 susp. Easiest way is a J55 setup (13x1.1), already has all the alu shafts

aluy bodies shocks???

 

[turtlevette]

dynas are way too small. He has C4 susp. Easiest way is a J55 setup (13x1.1), already has all the alu shafts

aluy bodies shocks???

Yep, we'll have the caliper size debate some other time. Big=bling but not a whole lot of gain for the weight increase.

MIni starter
lightweight wheels
remove radio
remove carpet
lightweight seats
lightweight power steering pump
run without tops
aluminum transmission crossmember
fabricate inner door panels them suckers are heavy. I think they absorb moisture over the years.
I believe there is a steel crossmember in the rear that is redundant. beejay cut his out.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

lightweight PS pump is easy, get a C4 alu pump...lightweight plastic reservoir...done

His tranny is held up by an alu C beam

Beejay cut his rear crossmember because he converted to a late C3 batwing, that's why he could remove it.

 

[69427]

dynas are way too small. He has C4 susp. Easiest way is a J55 setup (13x1.1), already has all the alu shafts

aluy bodies shocks???

Yep, we'll have the caliper size debate some other time. Big=bling but not a whole lot of gain for the weight increase.

MIni starter Got it.
lightweight wheels Got 'em.
remove radio I've kicked around gutting out a spare radio (that I can't find since the move) so the dash looks stock.
remove carpet I'm trying to keep things looking stock and unaltered.
lightweight seats Got some '79 seats from Karsten. That and custom brackets dropped about 30 pounds.
lightweight power steering pump Got one. ('89 Grand Am, 6# lighter for $10)
run without tops I remove those and the rear window at low speed events.
aluminum transmission crossmember I've been thinking about that for several years, but haven't done anything while I was getting a bit more experienced with my TIG welding. I drilled out the stock crossmember and dropped it from 22# to 20#.
I would hope an aluminum crossmember could be 5-8 pounds lighter.
fabricate inner door panels them suckers are heavy. I think they absorb moisture over the years. Not sure what you mean here.
I believe there is a steel crossmember in the rear that is redundant. beejay cut his out.

I'm still thinking that one over. At the moment I'm more comfortable having something tie the two side rails together other than the batwing. I'll have to do some FBD/statics work on the idea. (Old picture.)



I'm using the Dynalites all around, along with 11.75" rotors to fit under the stock C3 wheels. Been to several track days, and I'm very happy with the performance and pad longevity. (Photo during initial assembly.)



I'm using the small body Bilsteins, which are pretty light. I don't know the weight of others in aluminum. Packaging is tight, and I don't know if the aluminum shocks use bigger diameter springs.
I haven't had the opportunity to weigh the car since I left Orlando. With an eighth tank of fuel and no driver (and the rear bumpers off until I can find the brackets, another casualty of the move), the car was 2910 pounds. I've taken another 45-50 pounds out since (seats and brackets, p/s pump, radiator support, F-car hollow bar, stolen lightweight 17# battery out of my garden tractor, and a couple other things), so once I get the rear bumpers back on (for a stock appearance) I think I will be at about 2885 pounds. For autocrossing I take off the tops and rear window for an additional 32 pounds off. Road courses I leave them on, and run an additional 5-6 gallons of fuel to last the session.

 

[turtlevette]

[I'm using the Dynalites all around, along with 11.75" rotors to fit under the stock C3 wheels. Been to several track days, and I'm very happy with the performance and pad longevity. ]

Me too, I don't know where Marck gets the idea that they're "way too small"

The panels covering the inside of the doors are of the thick carboard looking crap. They seem way heavy for just making things pretty. I wonder if they can be hogged out a bit.

You didn't comment on a thin al hood.

It won't be long before there's nothing left unless you really want to start gutting it and you don't.

 

[mrvette]

Could try compressed helium for fluids, and hydrogen for fuel,

and in my case looooose a foot in height and 70 lbs in weight....

but that 400 lbs weight reduction over my car at a stockish 3300 lbs, is a LOT, and so I wonder just what my '72 vert really actually weighed to start with, my only comment on the body is, that the fender flares seem very thick on the inside, compared to a stock later shark, but I can't figger more than 20 lbs for the plastic...

I noted the replacement rad support was a LOT lighter/thinner steel than the OEM part, even with 1/2 of it missing....and so I drilled drain holes in the lower rear down lo, to let the water go....

this is an interesting project in that I have to say my feeble attempts at weight reduction are not very successful ....

:hissyfit:

 

[Twin_Turbo]

The dynalite are some of the smallest wilwood calipers. They are aimed for entry level aftermarket brake kits or for sports and light formula racing. Must be me but I prefer my calipers a little larger. The brembos I installed on the 91 vette, now those are stoppers. The diference with the stock is night and day

 

[mrvette]

The dynalite are some of the smallest wilwood calipers. They are aimed for entry level aftermarket brake kits or for sports and light formula racing. Must be me but I prefer my calipers a little larger. The brembos I installed on the 91 vette, now those are stoppers. The diference with the stock is night and day

Rotor size and pad area/pad flex but really what is gained for any given caliper design long as it puts the pressure on?? other than weight loss off a C3, obviously....??

:surrender:

 

[69427]

[I'm using the Dynalites all around, along with 11.75" rotors to fit under the stock C3 wheels. Been to several track days, and I'm very happy with the performance and pad longevity. ]

Me too, I don't know where Marck gets the idea that they're "way too small"
I originally tried to use the Superlites, but I couldn't package them inside the stock C3 wheels due to the shallow rotor hat needed to clear the spindle knuckle.



The panels covering the inside of the doors are of the thick carboard looking crap. They seem way heavy for just making things pretty. I wonder if they can be hogged out a bit.

You didn't comment on a thin al hood. It's a Corvette. I gotta stick with fiberglass (or carbon fiber, if that ever got to be an economical possibility).
It won't be long before there's nothing left unless you really want to start gutting it and you don't.

Well, it is getting harder all the time. The upside is that every ounce gets to be a bigger percentage reduction as the car gets lighter.

 

[69427]

the mitsu alt is probably a nippon denso, have a pic???

This is it. Not sure what it's off of. My guess is some industrial equipment. I need to get the connector pinout.

Took some time off from more cerebral activities on the car, and cut out a replacement tensioner arm for the alternator.



The steel arm is 3/16" thick, but I used 1/4" for the aluminum piece. I cut the new piece a sixteenth inch wider on each side so I can tweak the shape once I try it on the engine. The new piece is 3.95 ounces lighter, and probably a full quarter pound once I finish the shape. I kicked around drilling some holes in the steel piece to lighten it, but the scrap piece for comparison in the picture is only 2.5 ounces, so it convinced me I was going to have to plasma cut/drill a good chunk of the arm to match the aluminum piece weight. The new arm feels sturdy, so I think I'll give it a try on the engine. Hopefully after a bit of sanding I can get some black paint to hide my slip up with the carbide bit. :crap:

 

[69427]

Did some additional clearance grinding on the tensioner arm and painted it. Final weight was 5.50 ounces, 4 ounces less than the steel arm. This is in addition to the previous 21 ounce reduction with the change to an aluminum right side alternator mount.

I keep looking at the hood support bracket on the left side of the hood (up front, up high, left side weight). It would be easy to make something lighter, but to be honest, I am so impressed with the cleverness of the ratcheting design of that piece, and how well it works, that I would feel uncomfortable exchanging it for some crude stick thing, as it were. I like the telescoping feature of the thing, so I'm trying to come up with something that won't look conspiculously out of place there.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Aluminum-...70989&pt=Race_Car_Parts&vxp=mtr#ht_506wt_1396

 

[69427]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Aluminum-...70989&pt=Race_Car_Parts&vxp=mtr#ht_506wt_1396

Sweet. (I may reconsider my philosophy of trying to keep the new parts unnoticable to the casual observer.)

 

[69427]

the mitsu alt is probably a nippon denso, have a pic???

Or if he wants to retain an Americian looking unit the CS 121 8.8 pounds like i have. The denso 98 mm is 5.68 pounds.

I can't remember. Does he have wilwoods on there? Dynalites are only around 2.5 pounds.

c4 corvette aluminum driveshaft. Shortened C4 aluminum halfshafts.

Cut all the steel ahead of the rad out.

It's getting to be junkyard roaming season. What vehicles did a CS121 come on? Is there a tag or imprint that says CS121?

 

[Twin_Turbo]

I think the CS121 is the same case as the CS130, they came on a lot of cars, f bodies being one of them. You'll need a pre 88 one if you want to be able to use a simple alternator bracket, the later ones are for the serpentine stuff and the case has a different mounting pattern.

This is a 47802 powermaster C130, 802 series...diff part # for chrome (if you want chrome, or black thermal dissipating paint ..or another option)



These are pretty lightweight indeed. Easy to recognise by the small plastic cap on the back edge.

 

[Sam Cogley]

I have to ask...why not go with the CS144 series over the CS130? Yes, it's a bit bigger, but it's also quite a bit tougher.

 

[turtlevette]

I think the CS121 is the same case as the CS130, .

I thought the 121 means 121 mm and 130 means 130 mm, but i've been wrong before. Mine definitely looks smaller than any i've seen on an American product.

I tried googling applications someone said Pontiac Sunbird. Sounds like 90's era compacts.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Learned something new today, it's the stator diameter in mm.. thanks Jim so the 130 is bigger than the 121..the cases look similar in shape though.

 

[69427]

Nine mm difference isn't much when eyeballing the alternator. Is the number (121) stamped into the housing anywhere?

Thanks again.

 

[turtlevette]

Nine mm difference isn't much when eyeballing the alternator. Is the number (121) stamped into the housing anywhere?

Thanks again.

I tried looking at mine. I don't see any numbers. Take a ruler with.

The disadvantage of the 121 is it doesn't produce as much current at idle. I doubt you care about that.