Brake/Fuel line overhaul

[denpo]

I'm considering the option of redoing the whole fuel and brake line circuitry with flexible stainless steel braided line.
-Is that a good or a stupid idea?
-3/8 for fuel line seems ok, what about brake line?
-What level of psi the brake line is supposed to withstand?

Thanks.
Denis

 

[mrvette]

I'm considering the option of redoing the whole fuel and brake line circuitry with flexible stainless steel braided line.
-Is that a good or a stupid idea?
-3/8 for fuel line seems ok, what about brake line?
-What level of psi the brake line is supposed to withstand?

Thanks.
Denis

Show car? or just something you want decent to work reliably??

if the former, sure, why not, goes with your custom frame and the rest of it....

if the latter, just replace all the rusted crap, and use brake lines from your local supply house.....even for the rear long line under your seat, I used two with a flare union in the middle been there for years now....

fuel lines are nothing but the same thing... 3/8 brake line with appropriate modifications....

 

[010752]

I'm considering the option of redoing the whole fuel and brake line circuitry with flexible stainless steel braided line.
-Is that a good or a stupid idea?
-3/8 for fuel line seems ok, what about brake line?
-What level of psi the brake line is supposed to withstand?

Thanks.
Denis

Stupid :surrender:

 

[Stpman]

I bought my brake and fuel lines from Classic Tube outside of Niagara Falls New York. They have replacement steel or Stainless Steel

 

[denpo]

I'm considering the option of redoing the whole fuel and brake line circuitry with flexible stainless steel braided line.
-Is that a good or a stupid idea?
-3/8 for fuel line seems ok, what about brake line?
-What level of psi the brake line is supposed to withstand?

Thanks.
Denis

Stupid :surrender:

Blunt honesty, I love that :noob::tomato:

 

[MYBAD79]

I used stainless braided hose for fuel supply and return. It's easy to install with the body on the frame and should last quiet a few years... system pressure is low so there's no huge potential for leaks - at least between tank and pump... between pump and carb I used AN fittings....

The brake lines are available in stainlesstubing, pre-bent and actually a very good fit. I got mine from MidAmerica back in 2004... $150 if I remember correctly, plus the 4 hoses...

 

[Grampy]

Fuel - OK : Brakes - No way

Fuel is low pressure and pumped volume so no problem you can use hard or soft lines as you want and it'll work.

Brakes are another story - the "soft" hose liner modulus of elasticity is small compared to steel tube so the long lines will expand much more than a hard line (think balloon) when the line is pressurized this will make the brakes feel soft and make modulation more difficult. The expansion will take more volume and therefore brake pedal stroke. The ability to withstand mechanical damage is probable reduced. Overall not a good idea.

Grampy

 

[TimAT]

I'm with Grampy-- any line- stainless hard line, flex line, whatever, will expand under pressure. You could get all the air out of the system, no problem, but jump hard on the brakes, and the flex line will expand just enough that you'll never know the brakes won't work when you need them the most.

Best example I know of is a small Porta-Power- that hose from the pump to the ram is flexible and easy to move around. Put 3000 PSI on it and it's still flexible, but it's also real stiff. Move that hose around and you can SEE the pressure gauge move too.

 

[mrvette]

I'm with Grampy-- any line- stainless hard line, flex line, whatever, will expand under pressure. You could get all the air out of the system, no problem, but jump hard on the brakes, and the flex line will expand just enough that you'll never know the brakes won't work when you need them the most.

Best example I know of is a small Porta-Power- that hose from the pump to the ram is flexible and easy to move around. Put 3000 PSI on it and it's still flexible, but it's also real stiff. Move that hose around and you can SEE the pressure gauge move too.

OK, lemme see if I get this right.....we pressure one end of the line, and stick a gauge on the other end.....then move the flex line around....and the gauge registers some changes....:amazed::bs: NFW man.....the hose expands to X amount to the pressure available....how in hell can moving the hose affect the pressure on the end??

:twitch:ush::skeptic:

 

[denpo]

I used stainless braided hose for fuel supply and return. It's easy to install with the body on the frame and should last quiet a few years... system pressure is low so there's no huge potential for leaks - at least between tank and pump... between pump and carb I used AN fittings....

The brake lines are available in stainlesstubing, pre-bent and actually a very good fit. I got mine from MidAmerica back in 2004... $150 if I remember correctly, plus the 4 hoses...

MYBAD79, what size of braided SS hose did you use for you fuel line?
I've read that 3/8 is supposed to be equivalent to -6 AN and 1/4 is -4 AN
Since it might be measured by the outer diameter, so I'm not sure if the inner diameter is the same.
On the same vein, does anyone can point me some good tutorial on how to cut them and install the hose ends.
For the brake, I just did the right thing, installed SS solid lines :smash:

 

[MYBAD79]

AN line is measured in 16th

AN-6 is 6/16" or 3/8"

I used 8 AN for supply (1/2") - That's overkill for my engine but it fit the tank outlet pretty good ... pushed it onto the hard line and clamped it down with a SS hose clamp

I used 6 AN for the return, again, it fit the line at the tank

When you cut them to install fittings use masking tape tight around the location where you cut. Use a Dremel tool with a thin cutting wheel or a angle grinder (wider cut).... leave the tape in place, oil the hose end and push the fitting in place... TT has a few good pictures, he's pretty good at these AN fittings :thumbs:

On the connection to the tank I simply cut 1" of the stainless braids off to expose the hose so that I could use a hose clamp. I did wrap the end of the braids with electrical tape ... if I ever lift the body or drop the tank I'll change it to Swedgelock fittings that crimp onto the line at the pickup.... I doubt it will ever be needed.....

 

[denpo]

AN line is measured in 16th

AN-6 is 6/16" or 3/8"

I used 8 AN for supply (1/2") - That's overkill for my engine but it fit the tank outlet pretty good ... pushed it onto the hard line and clamped it down with a SS hose clamp

I used 6 AN for the return, again, it fit the line at the tank

When you cut them to install fittings use masking tape tight around the location where you cut. Use a Dremel tool with a thin cutting wheel or a angle grinder (wider cut).... leave the tape in place, oil the hose end and push the fitting in place... TT has a few good pictures, he's pretty good at these AN fittings :thumbs:

On the connection to the tank I simply cut 1" of the stainless braids off to expose the hose so that I could use a hose clamp. I did wrap the end of the braids with electrical tape ... if I ever lift the body or drop the tank I'll change it to Swedgelock fittings that crimp onto the line at the pickup.... I doubt it will ever be needed.....

17 minutes later I resume my shopping spree. Phew, I almost waited.

MYBAD rocks :1st:

 

[MYBAD79]

here's more on AN sizes:


http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256&highlight=stainless+hose


I was looking for the pics that Marck posted but couldn't find them (we'll work on that )....

 

[denpo]

out of curiosity I asked for a quote to the guys at inlinetube for the 3 fuel lines (main, return, vapor).

Fist I asked for USPS shipping, they replied with Fedex shipping, I guess they read emails halfway.

Then the price : 180$ in part.... 180$ in shipping :bonkers:
Enough is enough, let's head to ebay and order those line.

MYBAD, what do you recommend for the vapor line in term on diameter?

My rought estimate for hose length is 15' for each of the right size line, and 12' for the left size. I measured 15' considering I would go from the top of the tank to the fuel pump, removing all rubber hoses on the way.

 

[denpo]

while I'm at it, another question.
When I posted picture of my engine, I've been warned that rubber hose between carb, fuel filter and fuel pump was a no-no.
I understand that hard steel line is the way to go, but could those braided SS hose do the job, in term of pressure and heat?

 

[mrvette]

I have been using cheep FI hose running 40 to even a blocked return test at 60+ psi on my vette until very recently as a reaction to all the bummer posts on that, I went to a hydraulic hose company and got FI hose with steel mesh reinforcement and FI rated pressure 360* wrap clamps, not the typical worm drive hose clamps anymore....

now for decades I have run normal 3/8 fuel line hose from pumps to carb mechanical or electric....never an issue....course when working on the cars, I would look/check the hose for stability like a radiator/heater hose, no different....never had a issue...

only safety issue I can think of is to make sure pumps quit if engine does.....run off the oil pressure switch....easy....

think it was 100 psi or something, 3-4 psi is more like it for a Qj, for instance....5-6? maybe for a Carter/Edel AFB.....

I dunno jack about Holley....don't want to either....

:gurney::drink:

 

[MYBAD79]

out of curiosity I asked for a quote to the guys at inlinetube for the 3 fuel lines (main, return, vapor).

Fist I asked for USPS shipping, they replied with Fedex shipping, I guess they read emails halfway.

Then the price : 180$ in part.... 180$ in shipping :bonkers:
Enough is enough, let's head to ebay and order those line.

Forget Ebay, get the hose from Summitracing - $80 for 25' 6AN, $100 for 25' 8AN... vapor line ??? must be some funny line some of these old cars have :lol:

Inlinetube seems to be reasonable... try to ship some 15' long box and add some 2x4 pieces of wood to prevent it from bending....

Now... if you buy a stainless steel brake line kit from MidAmerica don't be surprised if they bend/fold it to make it fit a smaller box, had that happen to me back in 2004... I would expect other vendors are not any better... shipping oversize is expensive...

 

[MYBAD79]

while I'm at it, another question.
When I posted picture of my engine, I've been warned that rubber hose between carb, fuel filter and fuel pump was a no-no.
I understand that hard steel line is the way to go, but could those braided SS hose do the job, in term of pressure and heat?

with good quality AN fitting yes....

 

[denpo]

out of curiosity I asked for a quote to the guys at inlinetube for the 3 fuel lines (main, return, vapor).

Fist I asked for USPS shipping, they replied with Fedex shipping, I guess they read emails halfway.

Then the price : 180$ in part.... 180$ in shipping :bonkers:
Enough is enough, let's head to ebay and order those line.

Forget Ebay, get the hose from Summitracing - $80 for 25' 6AN, $100 for 25' 8AN... vapor line ??? must be some funny line some of these old cars have :lol:

Inlinetube seems to be reasonable... try to ship some 15' long box and add some 2x4 pieces of wood to prevent it from bending....

Now... if you buy a stainless steel brake line kit from MidAmerica don't be surprised if they bend/fold it to make it fit a smaller box, had that happen to me back in 2004... I would expect other vendors are not any better... shipping oversize is expensive...

I'm not complaining about inlinetube price, they're good, but paying as much as shipping is ridiculous to me. I bought a set of SS brake line from a CF member, I actually received two sets (he bought in double and cancelled his resto) in a 4'x2'x1' box : 30-40$ of shipping. I'm fine with "shipping bends", just be gentle and the line get back in shape.

About Summit:
What I found in the price range you indicated are rubber based braided SS hose, and apparently specialized for fuel line.
What I found on Ebay, for the same price range, was TPFE (teflon) based.
What's the trick?
An I'm kinda confused, I though teflon was the top of the range material.

 

[denpo]

vapor line ??? must be some funny line some of these old cars have :lol:

You don't have fuel vapor line?
The soon old version of my vette had quiet a gas smell issue, and I though there was a problem with this particular line and/or the vapor canister.
Maybe not....
I curious about your take on the subject.

Anyway, since I discovered that the fuel return line was connected to nothing on the engine side of it I'm ready to kind of surprise with this car *sigh*.
Still have to check if it's been done for a purpose or it's just some bubba fix.