harmonic distortion damaging electrical items

[mrvette]

Don't forget that ALL auto and marine wiring is stranded on account of vibration needs, solid will snap in a heartbeat....

I knew stranded was typically rated less amps than solid for any given so called gauge or size/diameter....

what is surprising is the tables shown above for up rating wires for marine and using less copper, plated or not, I can't see that....

never knew there was any differences in 'marine' wire to standard stranded, have used typical auto/stranded wires for decades on boats, unaware of any differences.....saw a 40 amp fuse on the anchor winch...stuck in a #6 wire....figgered NO voltage drop....start with 12 volts and drop a volt you got shit, start with 120 volts and drop the same volt through same wire/length...so what???

goes to my thoughts from messing with old military gear from WW2 yet...

24+ should have been the switch, not from 6-12 in the 50's yet...even I knew THAT.....age 12.....

 

[Cherry]

Bird.......I'm not questioning you by any means.

Let me tell you what we are told when wiring boats. Not that I do it for a living, but as a hobby, I work on my boats.

We are told that using stranded wires in a boat reduces heat on that wire and that the wire can support more amperage on a similar gauge. This is by the ABYC recommendations. Why would it apply in marine applications but not in this situation?

Unknown. I am, however, intrigued. Got a link??

http://www.pkys.com/Reference.htm

Not exactly what I was looking for. I'll keep looking. Note it mentions 105*.


http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/elect.html#Low Voltage Wiring
Low Voltage Wiring: Less than 50 volts

Low voltage conductors must comply with SAE standard J1127 and J1128 and the insulation temperature rating of SAE J378b or UL standard 1426.

Look at the labeling on the wire. Does it say UL Marine? Does it have an SAE or ISO rating? If there is no label on the wire is the spool or package labeled? Many wire manufacturers don't label the wire but they do label the package it comes in.

DO NOT use wire that has no labeling on the wire or on the spool or packaging.

DO NOT go to your local auto store and buy automotive wiring off the shelf! Get your wire from a marine supply. Ask them if it is labeled and what the label says.

DO NOT USE ROMEX.

DO USE UL BOAT CABLE.

:banghead::kissass: "RED, random, experimenting, diddling pre qualifications to be a EE.

Nothing more: :evil:

 

[big2bird]

never knew there was any differences in 'marine' wire to standard stranded, have used typical auto/stranded wires for decades on boats, unaware of any differences....

It's just "defenite purpose" wire. Any wire in any application should have an insulation rating for it's use. THWN "gas and oil resistant" for instance, in the petroleum field. Overkill is fine. General Aviation uses Teflon Coated wire. Bitch to strip, but killer insulation.

 

[mrvette]

never knew there was any differences in 'marine' wire to standard stranded, have used typical auto/stranded wires for decades on boats, unaware of any differences....

It's just "defenite purpose" wire. Any wire in any application should have an insulation rating for it's use. THWN "gas and oil resistant" for instance, in the petroleum field. Overkill is fine. General Aviation uses Teflon Coated wire. Bitch to strip, but killer insulation.

Have had many a reel of teflon wire for decades now, outta some geek basement that his wife was cleaning out....still have more, must have supplied some 3-4 cars with wire over the years, this one must have 6 types off them reels in it now....:thumbs::devil:

 

[Jsup]

never knew there was any differences in 'marine' wire to standard stranded, have used typical auto/stranded wires for decades on boats, unaware of any differences.....saw a 40 amp fuse on the anchor winch...stuck in a #6 wire....figgered NO voltage drop....start with 12 volts and drop a volt you got shit, start with 120 volts and drop the same volt through same wire/length...so what???

The primary difference between true marine wire and auto wire is marine wire is tinned. You wouldn't believe how much corrosion is avioded using a tinned wire.

All wire in a boat should be tinned ( not "code" but good practice) and every connection should have di-electric grease (again, not code but good practice). I nearly burned down my boat because the manufacturer didn't use either.

Cheap boats, this is one place they cut. I have an Aquasport which I figured wasn't a "cheap" boat.

 

[mrvette]

never knew there was any differences in 'marine' wire to standard stranded, have used typical auto/stranded wires for decades on boats, unaware of any differences.....saw a 40 amp fuse on the anchor winch...stuck in a #6 wire....figgered NO voltage drop....start with 12 volts and drop a volt you got shit, start with 120 volts and drop the same volt through same wire/length...so what???

The primary difference between true marine wire and auto wire is marine wire is tinned. You wouldn't believe how much corrosion is avioded using a tinned wire.

All wire in a boat should be tinned ( not "code" but good practice) and every connection should have di-electric grease (again, not code but good practice). I nearly burned down my boat because the manufacturer didn't use either.

Cheap boats, this is one place they cut. I have an Aquasport which I figured wasn't a "cheap" boat.

:shocking::1st: I would not refer to a 28' Chris Craft with twin 305 chebby engines as a cheap boat either....BUT them dumb bastards from the FACTORY used a MOLEX connector for heavy current wiring to among the other drains in the front cabin/bunk it also fed the anchor winch....when we decided to wire it right, the 'problems' somehow disappeared.....the guys could not tell, because they are good mechanics and welders but not electrical types.....I spotted that POS a mile away and just laughed......I also ran OMG wire to the anchor winch power....that bitch winch was going to RUN or die trying.....

:shocking::1st:

 

[Jsup]

never knew there was any differences in 'marine' wire to standard stranded, have used typical auto/stranded wires for decades on boats, unaware of any differences....

It's just "defenite purpose" wire. Any wire in any application should have an insulation rating for it's use. THWN "gas and oil resistant" for instance, in the petroleum field. Overkill is fine. General Aviation uses Teflon Coated wire. Bitch to strip, but killer insulation.

Ever see wire that has been in the bilge of a saltwater bilge for years, lots of time you'll cut the insulation and it will be hollow. The water actually carries the molecules of the copper through the insulation one at a time till there's none left. Dead serious.

 

[mrvette]

never knew there was any differences in 'marine' wire to standard stranded, have used typical auto/stranded wires for decades on boats, unaware of any differences....

It's just "defenite purpose" wire. Any wire in any application should have an insulation rating for it's use. THWN "gas and oil resistant" for instance, in the petroleum field. Overkill is fine. General Aviation uses Teflon Coated wire. Bitch to strip, but killer insulation.

Ever see wire that has been in the bilge of a saltwater bilge for years, lots of time you'll cut the insulation and it will be hollow. The water actually carries the molecules of the copper through the insulation one at a time till there's none left. Dead serious.

Nah, I gotta ask some old Navy friends....:amazed:

 

[Jsup]

Nah, I gotta ask some old Navy friends....:amazed:

Navy may not have the problem, as they do everything for overkill. Ask anyone who has ever serviced a bilge pump in a salt water runabout. Takes years, don't get me wrong, but it definitely happens.

 

[mrvette]

Nah, I gotta ask some old Navy friends....:amazed:

Navy may not have the problem, as they do everything for overkill. Ask anyone who has ever serviced a bilge pump in a salt water runabout. Takes years, don't get me wrong, but it definitely happens.

Apparently U RIGHT!!! I fail to see how, something for a guy into polycantpronounceits to esplain.....but I asked my welder buddy across the river this afternoon about that shit....he immediately swore it was true, seen it his own damn self.....

freeking age 64 and still in skool....:cussing:

 

[Jsup]

Nah, I gotta ask some old Navy friends....:amazed:

Navy may not have the problem, as they do everything for overkill. Ask anyone who has ever serviced a bilge pump in a salt water runabout. Takes years, don't get me wrong, but it definitely happens.

Apparently U RIGHT!!! I fail to see how, something for a guy into polycantpronounceits to esplain.....but I asked my welder buddy across the river this afternoon about that shit....he immediately swore it was true, seen it his own damn self.....

freeking age 64 and still in skool....:cussing:

I don't make stuff up lightly. If I don't trust my "source" I don't mention it.

If there's something I put a lot of time into, it's boat electrical systems, I know more about them than I care to admit.

I studied marine maintenance pretty thoroughly, you don't walk away from a stuck boat.

 

[mrvette]

Nah, I gotta ask some old Navy friends....:amazed:

Navy may not have the problem, as they do everything for overkill. Ask anyone who has ever serviced a bilge pump in a salt water runabout. Takes years, don't get me wrong, but it definitely happens.

Apparently U RIGHT!!! I fail to see how, something for a guy into polycantpronounceits to esplain.....but I asked my welder buddy across the river this afternoon about that shit....he immediately swore it was true, seen it his own damn self.....

freeking age 64 and still in skool....:cussing:

I don't make stuff up lightly. If I don't trust my "source" I don't mention it.

If there's something I put a lot of time into, it's boat electrical systems, I know more about them than I care to admit.

I studied marine maintenance pretty thoroughly, you don't walk away from a stuck boat.

Interesting how some guys get curious about the same shit, in their own ways, because I added DPFI on to my 20' Bayliner Volvo i/o 2100 4 cyl,....used a Volvo turbo injection rail in place of the Solex carb with the quarter sized throttle plate, and about 2+" on that intake hose.../tbody...then went to the GM computer off a '89 Grand Am 4 cyl to run it....x1,x2 inputs generated by a hole on the crank pulley and IR send/receive LED's from Radio Shack, took a plumbing angle stop and made a IAMotor air piece to bypass the throttle body so the idle would be correct, and ran it with a GM IACmotor....:yahoo: stupid boat picked up 3 effective prop sizes and got TWICE the fuel economy, instead of towing the kids for just a couple hours on the river, I could tow them damn nearly all day....same gas tank.....TOTALLY transformed that boat from a gutless wonder that was hard starting/running due to no choke on it, into a instant starting, hard running SOB.....

Same sort of change that went on with Mark's 28' chris craft...later on, and that went on with my '70 Pontiac Lemans/GTO convertible....putting DPFI on that old Pontiac 455, man that car hauled ASS.....got 4 mpg better fuel economy to boot, :1st: