c-c-c-cold remedy

[DeeVeeEight]

Does the blowing in process cause a lot of dust in the house?

The first attempt was comical. We had insulation all over the room. We solved the problem by using a bath towel around the hose to seal the hose to the wall opening. After the first 2 or 3 wall cavities were filled we had a good feel for it and got a system working for us that minimized the clean up. We also used the machine to blow in an extra layer of insulation in my attic. I would recommend at least 2 or 3 people to do the job. It went surprisingly fast and I had time and materials left over, so we took it over to my good friends house and did his place too.

I am sitting here tonight after the wall plugs have been spackled back in place and the A/C air return box has been installed with all seams tightly caulked. My wall thermostat actually reads the room temperature now and my interior walls are warm to the touch. It may be my imagination or wishful thinking but the persistent draft at floor level seems to be cut drastically too. Tomorrow the weather people are predicting a big storm here in the Northeast so I will be able to see if it is my imagination or not....

For the approximately $300 - $400 invested I would highly recommend this system, especially if you have little or no insulation. I am hoping to recover my investment in reduced utility bills, the next several months will tell.

 

[mrvette]

The return air was being pulled mainly from the attic space.

:crap:

YEH, you ain't kiddin'.....tell you what though, the typical winter shituation it's a good idea to run a 4" dryer pipe to the suction side of the furnace, from outside, with a screen over the intake of course.....this allows a slight positive air pressure to the house when furnace is running, that keeps drafts down.....

comfort factor increased....did it to two houses up north....worked well even on old systems...

:bounce:

That's a code requirement in Florida now.

You know, methinks you right....comment he made...
on that note, last Sunday, I put in a 5 ton water/air/freon coil, into the outdoor unit, and plumbed it to the old well pump, went from air/air heat pump now using the well water as the heat sink for the unwanted end of the heat pump.....HUGE improvement, the discharge water goes out to the back yard, primarily, and fills the water fountain in front, irrigates the bushes also....the unit no longer goes into a/c mode to defrost the coils, and so the house NOW gets 102f air off the stack....which is GREAT, hottest in years.....I made a HUGE error years ago and went with that damn air/air heat pump and now finally got brave enough to go back....thanks to stepson here for the smart work.....all I did was monkey work....

:shocking::bonkers::yahoo:

 

[DeeVeeEight]

The return air was being pulled mainly from the attic space.

:crap:

YEH, you ain't kiddin'.....tell you what though, the typical winter shituation it's a good idea to run a 4" dryer pipe to the suction side of the furnace, from outside, with a screen over the intake of course.....this allows a slight positive air pressure to the house when furnace is running, that keeps drafts down.....

comfort factor increased....did it to two houses up north....worked well even on old systems...

:bounce:

That's a code requirement in Florida now.

You know, methinks you right....comment he made...
on that note, last Sunday, I put in a 5 ton water/air/freon coil, into the outdoor unit, and plumbed it to the old well pump, went from air/air heat pump now using the well water as the heat sink for the unwanted end of the heat pump.....HUGE improvement, the discharge water goes out to the back yard, primarily, and fills the water fountain in front, irrigates the bushes also....the unit no longer goes into a/c mode to defrost the coils, and so the house NOW gets 102f air off the stack....which is GREAT, hottest in years.....I made a HUGE error years ago and went with that damn air/air heat pump and now finally got brave enough to go back....thanks to stepson here for the smart work.....all I did was monkey work....

:shocking::bonkers::yahoo:

Necessity - The Mother of Invention!

 

[mrvette]

:crap:

YEH, you ain't kiddin'.....tell you what though, the typical winter shituation it's a good idea to run a 4" dryer pipe to the suction side of the furnace, from outside, with a screen over the intake of course.....this allows a slight positive air pressure to the house when furnace is running, that keeps drafts down.....

comfort factor increased....did it to two houses up north....worked well even on old systems...

:bounce:

That's a code requirement in Florida now.

You know, methinks you right....comment he made...
on that note, last Sunday, I put in a 5 ton water/air/freon coil, into the outdoor unit, and plumbed it to the old well pump, went from air/air heat pump now using the well water as the heat sink for the unwanted end of the heat pump.....HUGE improvement, the discharge water goes out to the back yard, primarily, and fills the water fountain in front, irrigates the bushes also....the unit no longer goes into a/c mode to defrost the coils, and so the house NOW gets 102f air off the stack....which is GREAT, hottest in years.....I made a HUGE error years ago and went with that damn air/air heat pump and now finally got brave enough to go back....thanks to stepson here for the smart work.....all I did was monkey work....

:shocking::bonkers::yahoo:

Necessity - The Mother of Invention!

OH this invention is a mother alright,.....for sure....:shocking:

one hell of a kludge......but it works....

 

[BBShark]

The return air was being pulled mainly from the attic space.

:crap:

YEH, you ain't kiddin'.....tell you what though, the typical winter shituation it's a good idea to run a 4" dryer pipe to the suction side of the furnace, from outside, with a screen over the intake of course.....this allows a slight positive air pressure to the house when furnace is running, that keeps drafts down.....

comfort factor increased....did it to two houses up north....worked well even on old systems...

:bounce:

That's a code requirement in Florida now.

I had a new HVAC unit put it and they added a 6" pipe to the return plenum, taking in outside air. On cold days, I had water condensing on the outside of the pipe and dripping all over evrything. So I removed it.

Maybe I could replace it with insulated pipe?

 

[010752]

The return air was being pulled mainly from the attic space.

:crap:

YEH, you ain't kiddin'.....tell you what though, the typical winter shituation it's a good idea to run a 4" dryer pipe to the suction side of the furnace, from outside, with a screen over the intake of course.....this allows a slight positive air pressure to the house when furnace is running, that keeps drafts down.....

comfort factor increased....did it to two houses up north....worked well even on old systems...

:bounce:

That's a code requirement in Florida now.

I had a new HVAC unit put it and they added a 6" pipe to the return plenum, taking in outside air. On cold days, I had water condensing on the outside of the pipe and dripping all over evrything. So I removed it.

Maybe I could replace it with insulated pipe?

With a/c use, the outside air is just to add fresh air to an occupied space, primarily for totally enclosed office buildings and newer dwellings that a much more airtight. There is no air "lost", all just recirulation. In reality a 3/4" pipe into the return plenum in a home is more than enough.
Remember that since air can be compressed, it can flow even in suction at a greater rate than a fluid and a smaller pipe can be used.

With a combustion furnace, the negative pressure is created by the air consumed by combustion and being removed by the chimney stack. That is the air that needs to be replaced to equalize the pressure. Separate from the distribution system.
Added to the return it is just a safety factor that we have lived without for generations. Someone probably died somewhere from indoor BBQ'ing and necessitated new codes to replace oxygen. :suicide:

In any case, insulating is a good idea.
And remember that combustion produces steam, that can condense and corrode your combustion chamber burners etc.

 

[big2bird]

:crap:

YEH, you ain't kiddin'.....tell you what though, the typical winter shituation it's a good idea to run a 4" dryer pipe to the suction side of the furnace, from outside, with a screen over the intake of course.....this allows a slight positive air pressure to the house when furnace is running, that keeps drafts down.....

comfort factor increased....did it to two houses up north....worked well even on old systems...

:bounce:

That's a code requirement in Florida now.

I had a new HVAC unit put it and they added a 6" pipe to the return plenum, taking in outside air. On cold days, I had water condensing on the outside of the pipe and dripping all over evrything. So I removed it.

Maybe I could replace it with insulated pipe?

With a/c use, the outside air is just to add fresh air to an occupied space, primarily for totally enclosed office buildings and newer dwellings that a much more airtight. There is no air "lost", all just recirulation. In reality a 3/4" pipe into the return plenum in a home is more than enough.
Remember that since air can be compressed, it can flow even in suction at a greater rate than a fluid and a smaller pipe can be used.

With a combustion furnace, the negative pressure is created by the air consumed by combustion and being removed by the chimney stack. That is the air that needs to be replaced to equalize the pressure. Separate from the distribution system.
Added to the return it is just a safety factor that we have lived without for generations. Someone probably died somewhere from indoor BBQ'ing and necessitated new codes to replace oxygen. :suicide:

In any case, insulating is a good idea.
And remember that combustion produces steam, that can condense and corrode your combustion chamber burners etc.

Good points. We also have bathroom fans, range fans, and clothes dryers that all require make up air of some sort. A "conditioned" replacement of this air is necessary, hence the fresh air intake requirement.
I also like having a CO alarm, as like you say, the plenum will eventually rust thru, sending CO into the house if unchecked.

 

[mrvette]

Speaking of which, when remodeling the kitchen here some 6 years ago, I put the washer/dryer in their own closet, against the garage wall, and so drilled two holes about 4" each with a screen on the garage side....fresh air intake for the dryer.....I have not bothered with anything intake for the HVAC, as with the steady breeze and being the air handler is in the garage, it would take a act of congress to get to the fresh outside air, not sucking fumes....

Then the bath fans, and much less the kitchen range hood.....

always something.....

:crap:

 

[clutchdust]

Speaking of all this, I need to do pretty much the same thing in my attic. Not for winters, mind you, but like Steve said, for our summers. This is the only time of year I'll even seriously consider getting up in my attic. Our summer cooling bills are fucking outrageous. We're talking several hundred dollars each month for a house that's just barely 1000sq/ft. I've been up in the attic several times to fix duct leaks and I think our insulation is maybe 6" at its deepest.

 

[DeeVeeEight]

Speaking of all this, I need to do pretty much the same thing in my attic. Not for winters, mind you, but like Steve said, for our summers. This is the only time of year I'll even seriously consider getting up in my attic. Our summer cooling bills are fucking outrageous. We're talking several hundred dollars each month for a house that's just barely 1000sq/ft. I've been up in the attic several times to fix duct leaks and I think our insulation is maybe 6" at its deepest.

I also found that my A/C ducts, in the attic, were exposed to the super-heated air. I covered them with some tarps and moving blankets and saw an immediate improvement in cooling. This year I will be adding more insulation to my duct work to make the A/C system more efficient.

 

[big2bird]

I replaced my ducts last year with new R-6 material. If I did it again, I would use the new R-8. It is twice as much $$ though.
I found that increasing the attic ventilation made a huge difference, and this summer I plan on adding radiant heat barrier to the underside of the roof on the south facing side.
I still feel placing conditioned air ducts inside an unconditioned space with just R-6 or 8 value to be stupid.
It just makes no sense to me at all. We insulate atticks with R-30 + now, yet the air in the ducts has only R-6 or 8. How dumb is that?
As energy prices soar, and they will, we need to come up with better solutions to how we do things. The old ways when energy was cheap no longer apply. And the cost effectiveness is now even more plausible.

 

[68L71]

y'all have no basements? Around here no ducts are in the attic, but every house has a basement. It makes no sense to put ducts in the attic insulated or not. In the winter the attic is freezing and in the summer it is baking....the exact opposite of the air flowing through the ducts.

 

[big2bird]

y'all have no basements? Around here no ducts are in the attic, but every house has a basement. It makes no sense to put ducts in the attic insulated or not. In the winter the attic is freezing and in the summer it is baking....the exact opposite of the air flowing through the ducts.

Like the white powdery substance that falls from the sky, I too have heard of these "basements" you call them.

 

[mrvette]

Speaking of all this, I need to do pretty much the same thing in my attic. Not for winters, mind you, but like Steve said, for our summers. This is the only time of year I'll even seriously consider getting up in my attic. Our summer cooling bills are fucking outrageous. We're talking several hundred dollars each month for a house that's just barely 1000sq/ft. I've been up in the attic several times to fix duct leaks and I think our insulation is maybe 6" at its deepest.

Like I have posted before....PAINT THE SHINGLES WHITE with elastrometric roof coating HD/Lowes has it, so do paint stores.....drop you attic temps about 40f.....seriously....mine is about a 45f drop, buy by time I got it done last summer it was nearly September...so not the absolute hottest....methinks it maybe worth almost 50f temp difference between ambient in the outdoor shade, and inside the attic.....

WHITE is the only color that dont get hot to the touch.....so if the roofing material is cool at ~105f in the bright sun....the attic was at 108f....

like I said 40f drop....my house faces west, and I have mucho shade on the southern angle....

:bestwishes:

 

[mrvette]

y'all have no basements? Around here no ducts are in the attic, but every house has a basement. It makes no sense to put ducts in the attic insulated or not. In the winter the attic is freezing and in the summer it is baking....the exact opposite of the air flowing through the ducts.

Most ANY basement if FLORIDA is known as a indoor swimming pool.....all the homes I have worked on here, I have seen ONE with what qualifies as a basement.....

:lol::lol:

I was seriously considering framing off some duct chases under the sheetrock in this house, due to the layout, it would be fairly simple, believe it or not, and so with the white roof, and now having actual WARM/HOT air with the water exchanger conversion I dunno if its worth the effort, I will see with the KW useage on year/year comparo...and weather history off the net....to keep my mammary honest....

:2nd::lol:

 

[clutchdust]

y'all have no basements? Around here no ducts are in the attic, but every house has a basement. It makes no sense to put ducts in the attic insulated or not. In the winter the attic is freezing and in the summer it is baking....the exact opposite of the air flowing through the ducts.

Surprisingly, no. Despite the water table being 50+ feet down, there are an extreme few places that have basements. I know of only two houses that have "cellers" but that's it. I don't understand it myself as temps are far more stable underground. Hell, it would make more sense to bury the house underground and put the "basement" on top out here. Now that's a thought. :idea: I might just build a subterrainian house with a 5 car garage on top!

 

[DeeVeeEight]

My Dad used to have dreams of building a geo-thermal house, it would have been mostly underground as you have described.

 

[mrvette]

My Dad used to have dreams of building a geo-thermal house, it would have been mostly underground as you have described.

The only problem is you never see much sunlight windows on only one side, and maybe the roof, but then, what's the use??

and then depending, your walls be giving off super high humidity all the time, mould and rot inside.....YMMV...but I don't see it...:rain:

 

[GT6Steve]

It's cool to watch this thread and see how vastly different the conditions are across this great country.

Here in the Mojave a basement house with two feet of windows at the top with a small grass area for evaporative cooling just outside the dormers would make a hugely efficient structure. There's afew of them around but our caliche problem makes them prohibitvely expensive up front.

Jeez , how do you spell prohibitvely?:bs:

 

[DC3]

I had a new HVAC unit put it and they added a 6" pipe to the return plenum, taking in outside air. On cold days, I had water condensing on the outside of the pipe and dripping all over evrything. So I removed it. Maybe I could replace it with insulated pipe?

Insulating the pipe is probably the right thing to do to keep water from condensing on the outside. However, this might lead to water condensing inside the pipe. If I remember correctly, it is preferred to run the outside air pipe to an outside vertical wall and make sure the pipe is not level. It needs to tilt toward the outside wall so any condensation on the inside of the pipe can drip outside. You also need to make sure there is some kind of lip to direct the dripping condensation away from the house.

I also found that my A/C ducts, in the attic, were exposed to the super-heated air. I covered them with some tarps and moving blankets and saw an immediate improvement in cooling. This year I will be adding more insulation to my duct work to make the A/C system more efficient.

It is always best to have the a/c and heating ducts contained within the conditioned space. If they are in a non-conditioned (ie normal ventilated attic) and you insulate them too well, the cold air moving through them could condense within the ducts. I'm working from memory here and I'm not an expert on building science. There is a good building science website for getting advice on these types of issues. It is called Green Building Advisor. Here is the link: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/ There was a discussion there recently on problems with over insulating air ducts.

Don't let the "Green" part scare anyone away. The Q&A forum is frequented by architects, builders and building scientists and there are some great discussions about the best way to do things. A couple of the guys get a little over bearing in their "green" ways but most do not. There is a ton of good information on the site regarding proper building techniques including insulation. I don't participate regularly but I lurk a lot.

DC