My first 383 build......progress thread

[Imo Apita]

Didn't want to post in "projects" since it's only a motor and not a full resto.
Besides I feel like a fish out of water there because of all the impressive work being done.
Mods, feel free to move this if you need to.

This thread is meant as a progress report. It will be mainly random thoughts plus pictures. Feel free to comment.

Here we go:

My car is a stock '79 with the L48 engine which I bought as somebodies never-finished-project, hadn't run in two years. That should have been a flag.
4 new tires and it became my daily driver. I think it already had one cylinder going bad, but I think I killed it with an oil change with full synthetic. In about 6 months it ran on only 5 cylinders and has been that way for the last year. Cam gone bad.

I managed to score a free piss poor running engine out of a '66 'vette.
Discovered that it was a '72 2-bolt 010 block with '65 heads.
Decided it would be the base for my 383 block.
Here's one of the first threads that you guys helped me with.
Wifey got laid off so the whole project was delayed.
http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4113

Picked up two weeks ago.:yahoo:
In the mean time the transmission is slipping and won't go into gear when it's hot. A TH350 rebuild seems to be not that much cheaper then a 700R4

Goal:
300 RWHP with a 700R4 so around 400-425 HP at the crank.
Goal is more tire shredding torque then max all out HP. Street scorcher more than flat out top speed. Stump puller, whatever you want to call it.
Overall purpose is to make small children and old ladies cry in fear.
I would like it to look as good as this (thanks to LarryWalk)

Found a machine shop locally and had the block done:

$700 for all the work.
Ordered the rotating assembly today $795 + $65 shipping so $860
Aluminum heads around $850 so I hope I can get it all running for $3000 total.
Never mind the fact that I can have a 383 stroker built for $3600.
Plus another $1000 for the 700R4 plus another $1000 to have it put in.
Total bill will be around $5500.
Purchase price of the car was 4K in June '08 before the economy took a dive,so total I'll be in it for 10K and that is without interior or paint. After interior and paint I'm guessing 12-14K.

Tell you one thing, it's not a good idea to start adding everything up.:twitch:

Anyway so far I have:

• Morel solid roller lifters
• Crane 1.5 full roller rockers
• 3/8 valve train stud girdle
• Main cap stud girdle
• Lunati rev kit
• +.030 rotating assembly w/ Scat 9000 cast crank, Probe forged flat top pistons

Bought the rotating assembly from Skip White Performance out of Kingsport Tennessee.
http://www.skipwhiteperformance.com/detail.aspx?Item=383-ROT
Will receive it in 4-8 days since they need to balance it on order.

These are the heads I plan on buying unless I find a better deal:
200 or 210cc aluminum Procomp
2.02 intake 1.6 exhaust valve

Some pictures from the disassembly:



Scratchy, scratchy:


Ready to hone at the machine shop:



I'll post some pictures of my shed and parts later.

 

[big_G]

I'm confused: You say you want more of a stump puller than a high hp (rpm) screamer, and then you list a solid roller set-up with rev-kit, stud girdle, etc. Those items are only needed if the engine will spin above about 6,300+ rpm. At those rpm's, the cast crank would be a real weak point. IMO, ditch the solid roller and stud girdle and limit the rpm's to 6k.

 

[Imo Apita]

I'm confused

So am I, education costs money according to CNC and I'm starting to think he's right.
Conflicting ideas and changing plans led to this jumble of parts.

I want to go SR for old school reasons and main girdle and valve train girdle won't hurt anything. I see nitrous in my near future also. Just a little bit maybe.....:clap:

From just a "simple low budget" rebuild this rapidly escalated into a maximum effort, maximum result build. Little too ambitious maybe, but I'll give it an honest try.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0smSUkB_nnw[/ame]

 

[MYBAD79]

That's pretty much the same that I posted in the 'solid roller thread'. If you want low end torque you don't need a solid roller cam and a rev kit - too much cam (like most solid rollers) actually lowers low end power and shifts it to a higher rpm range. Most solid roller cams are not very good street cams.

With the cast crank you should limit rpm to 6000-6500. Doesn't make sense to install a cam that is good for 7800rpm .... just trying to help you make a good decision

Instead of aluminum rockers I'd suggest the Comp Magnum roller and roller tip rockers - those Magnum are actually on my shopping list with 1.6 ratio, right now I "only" have the roller tip Magnums with 1:1.52 ratio.

 

[clutchdust]

So have you decide on what cam you're going to run?
I'm pretty happy with my 276/284 in mine but it might be a little too much for what you're looking for. Seems to make really good power after 2000rpm, but the power below that isn't a whole lot better than the old, tired L-81 (well, yes it is, but around 2000 it really starts to pull).
I know you were just posting that pic as a reference but are you actually planning on running a rev kit? May be overkill, but kind of like the stud girdles, they're not going to hurt you. Even though I never plan on taking mine over about 6200 I would really like that kit. Just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I could wrap it up to 7g if I really felt like it and wouldn't have to worry about valve float.
Now, this is not coming from experience, just my own personal hang ups, but I would really be worried about those ProComps. I've heard some very mixed reports about them. Couple machine shops I talked to sell them assembled as a package, couple other shops won't touch them. I don't think the price is that far off a set of Edelbrock's heads and Vic has been around a long time, I don't think he's going to put his rep on the line at this point just to compete with some off shore outfit. Besides, get the word out here and 'over there' you're looking for a set of heads. You never know what you're going to find. I mentioned to Art when he was out here that I wanted to put some aluminum heads on mine if I found a good deal and he called me a couple months later with a pair of used AFR 190s for four bills.

 

[Imo Apita]

With the cast crank you should limit rpm to 6000-6500. Doesn't make sense to install a cam that is good for 7800rpm .... just trying to help you make a good decision

I know and thanks for that.
Tell you what I don't want;

• I don't want Edelbrock
• I don't want a crate engine
• I don't want Flowmasters

If I wanted something sensible I wouldn't have bought a '79 C3.
It's the least sensible car that I've ever owned.
Nobody "needs" Hillborn mechanical fuel injection and velocity stacks, but I want that too.

I don't need a SR cam, without any mechanical reason I just want one.
Don't have any other explanation for it.
As far as the girdles and rev kit are concerned I want to make this motor somewhat idiot-proof, as in me-idiot-proof.
If I accidentally zing it in a fit of teenage-fury, it will hopefully life.
Hopefully it won't turn to toast the first time I put my foot in it.
I want to build a motor which is mine, because I can.

Now this doesn't mean that it needs to be a silly combination of thrown together parts. Just a little of the beaten path. I'm pretty sure that I'll use a timing gear set, the quiet ones..for just a little look-up-and-turn-around factor. No chrome, remove all badges from the car. Black rims nothing shiney.


Haven't decide on a cam need to call about 5-6 people; Comp, Lunati,Schneider, Delta, Skip White and what CNC recommended.
However, based on what I know (which isn't that much) I think I'm not too far of the mark with the Howards Max Torque cam mentioned in the SR thread.

I know about the Procomp heads, assumption is that the dealer who assembled them has the morals to check all the castings prior to assembly.
Arnoe has been happy. Just don't have the cash to spend on a set of AFR/Brodix. Comes back to what you want to build, a drag boat motor or a street/strip motor. They may not be the best choice but I'm not convinced they are the worst either.

I'll go looking and spread the word.................

 

[MYBAD79]

I just want one.

I know that feeling :thumbs:


The Procomp heads seem to be hit or miss. Some say they're ok, some say they're junk - I think that your risk is very low if you buy from Summit or Jegs as they have a very good return policy. If you get the heads and you find casting issues then I would not expect any BS from them about returning the heads...

 

[clutchdust]

Not bagging on your choices or anything. Just curious what it is about Edelbrock. To each their own, I suppose.
Since you're looking for torque more than ultimate flow numbers, what about a set of L98 heads? Just mentioning some options.

 

[Imo Apita]

Nothing wrong with Edelbrock, as a matter of fact they make a very good product. Just not that interested, maybe too much of a big name brand, too successful, I don't know. If I'd use something big name brand I'd probably grind the name off.
If you don't know what it is...I built the motor that is all you need to know.
Although according to David Vizard's book I would be an "assembler" and not a "builder".
I plan on removing all the exterior bling and badges, even the "corvette" on the back. If you don't know what it is... it's my car that's what it is.
All blacked out, no names, no brands, no nothing.
Generic no brand fabricated valve covers, generic air filter. generic HEI dizzy, no MSD boxes no nada.
If I ever buy like Corbeau seats I'd take the brand name off also.
"Where'd you get this?.......... I don't know don't remember"

The C3 version of this if you will:

But I'm getting off track, going to pick up my block this Saturday, my shed is ready and the rotating assembly is being balanced like right now...:yahoo:
Will get some more pics this weekend.

 

[69427]

.................
Although according to David Vizard's book I would be an "assembler" and not a "builder".
.......................

So what "officially" denotes a builder versus an assembler?

 

[larrywalk]

Looks like a nice build plan to me - no problem with the solid roller camshaft! Will your pistons have 4 eyebrows or 2? If they have 4 and your desired rpm range will be upwards of 6000 rpm, you might want to run the pistons with the notch towards the rear of the block ( a Joe Sherman recommendation) for better dwell at TDC (better high rpm power). However, this compromises low rpm engine noise with a bit more piston slap.

Also, make sure you check valve-to-piston clearance. Intake VPC decreases rapidly with tighter lobe separation angles, advanced cams and quick opening ramps. Exhaust VPC decreases with longer durations, tighter lobe separation angles, and retarded cams.

BTW, I have a 383 in work with the ProComp heads (PC-3003S) as well having 210 cc runners and 64cc chambers. Crunching all the numbers, static CR will be 10.8:1, but I'll be using a Comp Cams Nostalgia 30-30 solid flat tappet. The lift curve looks very good with quick ramps and tight lash settings. Intake is a high flow 2-plane; just ensure that your intake manifold has enough runner height to fully cover the runner height of these heads.

:thumbs:

 

[Imo Apita]

So what "officially" denotes a builder versus an assembler?

In one of his books he states that a builder " determines which parts work together, modifies and fabricates" vs a assembler that just slaps together..like me. I'm not quoting him ver-batim but paraphrasing.

Will your pistons have 4 eyebrows or 2?

Not sure, this pic shows 4 but the Ebay ad shows 2, we'll see when they get here in a couple of days.

Some more pics:

Imo's HotRod shop





Parts I intend to use at least until the next time I change my mind:

• 3/8 Valve train girdle
• Main stud girdle
• Offenhauser Dual Port 360 Intake

One of these carbs will be rebuild:

Yes that is an Edelbrock carb in the box but I won't use it but hopefully somebody some day will take it as partial payment for something.

Got the block back from the machine shop today:



Stroker cleareanced:



All bolt holes chamfered:



Bottom left is my handywork with a die grinder.
Lifter bores have been lightly honed, didn't expect that.
From what I can tell the small oil galley plug is a little crooked, doubt that it will be a problem.
For this weekend I plan on scrubbing the bores with soapy water and oil everything. Still undecided about painting the lifter valley.
Outside of the block will be "Cummins beige" like this:

Found this online:

NAPA sells it, so does Jegs.
Never like the Chevy Orange or even Ford Blue. Since eventually I plan on a black & tan interior, figured the engine might as well be tan.
Can't wait for the first Saturday night cruiser to tell me that it should have been orange for period correctness.:rofl:
Now I need to save some money for the heads and transmission not to mention exhaust and engine swap.....

 

[SmokinBBC]

Those Qjets look pretty nasty. Are they 750CFM?

 

[Imo Apita]

Those Qjets look pretty nasty. Are they 750CFM?

The one on the right comes from a '69 Cadillac Eldorado 500CI motor.
The one in the middle, I forgot but I think it comes off a 472CI Cadillac.
The Edelbrock was a freebie that also needs a rebuild.

 

[arneoe]

I know about the Procomp heads, assumption is that the dealer who assembled them has the morals to check all the castings prior to assembly.
Arnoe has been happy. Just don't have the cash to spend on a set of AFR/Brodix. Comes back to what you want to build, a drag boat motor or a street/strip motor. They may not be the best choice but I'm not convinced they are the worst either.

It is strange how much negative comments have been posted about PROCOMP cyliderheads; its seems like it will never stop. Well, the best way is to have hands on and judge from what you see. Most of us that have bought PC3003 or PC3002 lately are very pleased with these cylinder heads. I have bought a lot of parts from Skip White, no cylinder heads though, and I am so far, very pleased with their customer support and the quality/price/handling cost I have observed.

Arne

 

[MYBAD79]

It is strange how much negative comments have been posted about PROCOMP cyliderheads;

not really... I think it's just that people who are happy with what they bought usually don't jump all over the internet and post good feedback.

 

[MYBAD79]

Any progress ?

 

[Imo Apita]

Any progress ?

Thanks for asking....uh...no.
Got stuck after painting the block "piss off the Chevy crowd" beige.
Received the rotating assembly from White performance, good stuff.
Real nice.
For some reason I felt it was smarter to wait with assembly till I have the heads so I've been doing mainly head hunting the last month or so.

What a pain in the ass that is.
A lot of people don't seem to understand that when you're on a budget you're on a budget and not looking for $2K heads.
I've been laughed at, snorted at and simply ignored by speed shop owners.
WTF is wrong with these people.
First you need to learn how to talk you effing redneck and then you need to realize that I'm a customer. When I walk in you don't know if I'm a tirekicker or there to plonk down 15K for one of your "I always make 'em this way" motors.
Don't treat me like I'm Forest Gump either, I can effing understand you when you're talking about springs and valve sizes.

So here's the story so far (in short);
One shop owner;
So how about the Procomp heads? "Yeah I like 'em my customers use 'em I can order 'em."
So how about Brodix? "Yeah I like 'em my customers use 'em I can order 'em."
How about AFR/any random head? "Yeah I like 'em my customers use 'em I can order 'em."
You get the idea, absolutely useless.

Shop owner number two; great shop, really clean, drag race cars and lotsa expensive stuff in his shop. Wall full of plagues and trophy's. Winner here, winner there and a lot of Dale Earnhard stuff.
The guy's like 70 years old mumbles and is frankly speaking an ass.
Been there twice and twice he managed to piss me off. Laughs in my face when I tell him I'm on a budget, points to an massive motor on a stand and tells me these are $8K heads. So I understand it's his place so I kinda go with the flow you know, not disrespecting him or anything.
Nearly choked when I mentioned solid roller. Absolutely against a SR on the street. Tells me stuff like I always do this never do that blah blah blah.
If I'm wrong educate me don't talk down. That pisses me off.
So long story short he's got a customer bringing in a set of Brodix Race Rite that he'll look over and sell em for $800. Great now we're talking so I leave my number. Guy doesn't call for 3 weeks so I go see him last weekend.
Snorts when he sees my C3, whatever, how about those heads?
Yeah he didn't want to sell them. And you couldn't be bothered to call me?
I guess not. So you have anything else? So he spend 20 minutes mumbling to himself and rummaging through his records.
Tells me he's got a set of heads on the shelf for the last three years, guy never paid him. I'm like yeah I know you told me last time.
So he calls the guy, mumbles on the phone and says they're mine for $1150.
OK wait a moment now, I think you just added a couple of hundred.
We go look at the heads, massive intake valves. I ask about the valves, he doesn't know.
About the springs, he doesn't know. About the intake runner cc he doesn't know. Didn't you just tell me these heads are what I need?
Ask him the brand, he says PBM...who? Never heard of them. Brings out a catalogue and tries to look up the head numbers, Can't find 'em. Mumbles that they change them all the time.
So I told him I'd be back.

Did some Googling despite some bloody malware on my computer that keeps changing my Google searches, PBM are a chinese knock-off, no different then Patriot, Procomp, Lone star, Starlight Red Star and whatever all these other ones are called.
They're like $900 assembled and you are trying to sell me a set for $1150 that you can't remember shit about ?:cussing:

Like I said, you don't know if I'll be back next time to have you build my engine. Guess not.

So I'm still looking for heads. And the budget keeps getting smaller since I need a new brake booster and the missus ground up a water pump.
It just never ends.

 

[mrvette]

IMO, you are correct!! it IS APITA.......:crutches:

 

[MYBAD79]

Well... on a budget is probably comes down to Procomp/Edelbrock for under $1000 or something used.... doesn't mean people have to give you $hit about it....

Laughs in my face when I tell him I'm on a budget, points to an massive motor on a stand and tells me these are $8K heads.

sweet.... very impressive how it's sitting here collecting dust... :clap::clap:

some people simply suck....