big_G
Blown Member
Very cool. I need to send out my XFI ecu for the upgrade.
http://www.fuelairspark.com/WhatsNew/Files/fastxfi20.pdf
http://www.fuelairspark.com/WhatsNew/Files/fastxfi20.pdf
FAST ecu
- Thread starter big_G
- Start date
I'm not familiar with the Fast product. Looks like a self calibrating system, is that correct?
big_G
Blown Member
The FAST system is a powerful upper-end ecu, capable of anything you can throw at it. The original XFI ecu that I have was not capable of self-tuning. This is a new version of the XFI. Older units like mine are up-gradable.
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
TWO GRAND just for the computer???
outta MY league.....two HUNDRED is more like it.....
:crap:
Bullshark
Well-known member
Looks like Holley woke up the competition with its new Avenger/HP/Dominator family of DFI systems. From the press release, FAST did a quick turn on software/firmware. No hardware updates. Wonder if they plan to be more cost competitive also??? Anxious to see more detail.
Bullshark
Bullshark
big_G
Blown Member
When I was shopping for EFI a few years ago, the FAST system was only about $300 more than Holley or Edelbrocks systems. You do have to shop for a good deal a little harder than with Holley or Edel. The FAST has features and upgrade-ability that the others didn't offer. Only Bigstuff 3 and AEM had comparable features. Good to see Holley coming around, they were lagging behind on bells and whistles for years.
Twin_Turbo
Der Maulwurf
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 7,575
All those things still can't touch the capabilities of a stock GM ECM, wether it's a speed density, maf or the sy/ty ECM running code 59. May be a little more involving w/ using all kinds of cables, adapters and software but an ostrich2.0 and some free software go a very long way
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
PM coming your way man....need to know WTF you just said....
seriously.....:crap::banned:
big_G
Blown Member
You might want to look into today's aftermarket ECU's. Mine (FAST) will do internal data logging, nitrous and boost control, up to 5 bar map, traction control, sequential injector firing, individual cylinder timing and fuel control and on and on. Now with almost all the aftermarket systems offering some measure of self-tuning, end users will find them much easier to use than trying to learn to set spark and V/E tables on OEM ECU's. No doubt the newer G.M. (LS series) have a lot to offer, but not nearly as versatile as the better aftermarket ECU's. JMHO.
Bullshark
Well-known member
I agree with Big G, GM designed those ECU's to be configured by them and not the general public. I looked into Code 59 and ostrich emulators awhile back and to me they are a royle pain in the ass compared to the ease that the newer aftermarket systems offer. And by the time you purchase the all the necessary support hardware and software , you have dropped just as much $$ with less capability. GM ecm's require multiple iterations to home in on a tune while Holley and now FAST take advantage of sophisticated auto tune that GM would never consider accomodating. The latest GM ECU's used in C6's for example utilize tailored transfer functions adjusting /optimizing their coeficiants to a specific application. EFI-Live and others try to offer a lookup table user interface to give you an approximation value for those coeficiants. Questionable at best but maybe good enough for most. The late GM ecu's are top notch systems, but not ment for guys like us who like to modify. Just before I left town, I purchased the Holley Dominator ECU and unterminated wire harness. A little over $1400. (not list price) My plan is to upgrade the old Holley Comander 950 system I have in the Blue 69 BB. Probably will never use all the capability that it offers but I will never have to purchase another in my lifetime. HaHa This techno geek has said that before
For those of you who are a little more practical about what you want your car to do, the Avenger and HP ECU's are even cheaper. Big G, I know you are a FAST guy, and since you already own one, upgrade is surely the way to go, but if you get time, take a look at the new Holley stuff and do a $$ vs capability trade. Draw your own conclusions. Bullshark
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Twin_Turbo
Der Maulwurf
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 7,575
200 for an ostrich 2.0 and memory adapter board, that's all. TunerProRT is free
None of those aftermarket systems are designed to control stuff that the stock ECU does although they're getting better. Do they offer voltage correction for the fuel maps? Do they offer AC, power steering and other inputs to bump idle speed?
Datalogging? TunerProRT & WDO2, ostrich..blabla, it'll do that, real time aldl data steams, wbo2 tuning no problem.
If a code 59 can run a 720HP P1SC fed 383 I don't see how a fast system woiuld help, apart from the bling factor. This thing uses a 3 bar map, has boost control, wastegate control, intercooler pump control, all emissions controls if you want it.
Who needs traction control? I'd rather have the stock idle controls over that.
None of those aftermarket systems are designed to control stuff that the stock ECU does although they're getting better. Do they offer voltage correction for the fuel maps? Do they offer AC, power steering and other inputs to bump idle speed?
Datalogging? TunerProRT & WDO2, ostrich..blabla, it'll do that, real time aldl data steams, wbo2 tuning no problem.
If a code 59 can run a 720HP P1SC fed 383 I don't see how a fast system woiuld help, apart from the bling factor. This thing uses a 3 bar map, has boost control, wastegate control, intercooler pump control, all emissions controls if you want it.
Who needs traction control? I'd rather have the stock idle controls over that.
big_G
Blown Member
The FAST has voltage correction, and once you set the commanded idle speed, nothing you add to the load will change the idle speed. The FAST is a wide-band system, with a second O2 sensor input. Bottom line is you are paying for a good user interface and customer support. The self-tuning upgrade on my FAST will cost $50.
big_G
Blown Member
I agree with Big G, GM designed those ECU's to be configured by them and not the general public. I looked into Code 59 and ostrich emulators awhile back and to me they are a royle pain in the ass compared to the ease that the newer aftermarket systems offer. And by the time you purchase the all the necessary support hardware and software , you have dropped just as much $$ with less capability. GM ecm's require multiple iterations to home in on a tune while Holley and now FAST take advantage of sophisticated auto tune that GM would never consider accomodating. The latest GM ECU's used in C6's for example utilize tailored transfer functions adjusting /optimizing their coeficiants to a specific application. EFI-Live and others try to offer a lookup table user interface to give you an approximation value for those coeficiants. Questionable at best but maybe good enough for most. The late GM ecu's are top notch systems, but not ment for guys like us who like to modify. Just before I left town, I purchased the Holley Dominator ECU and unterminated wire harness. A little over $1400. (not list price) My plan is to upgrade the old Holley Comander 950 system I have in the Blue 69 BB. Probably will never use all the capability that it offers but I will never have to purchase another in my lifetime. HaHa This techno geek has said that before
Bullshark
Just went online and found a Holley Dominator ECU for $1,599 and a FAST XFI for $1,499. BUT, I see that the Holley Dominator has drive by wire and a transmission controller (4L60/80) built in. I would definitely buy the Dominator if I had to do it over. The Avenger line will not support my horsepower level, and doesn't allow for radical cams/ user tuning. Good reading on the Holley EFI site. http://www.holley.com/types/Dominator_EFI_-_ECU.asp
Bullshark
Well-known member
Yes to all of the above and more. Last time I looked, code 59 implemented a jury rigged wbo2 approach. I would have to revisit to remember the details. Marck, Time is money$$ !! Don't you have enough on your plate already. :lol:
:surrender:
J. Abbott
Well-known member
The Fast is nice, I have a new one that I am selling well maybe not now.
It has allot of options, I like the Accel DFI also. I have not used the new Holley or Big Stuff, but John Meany is the man.
I had decided to use just a stock E38 because it is a very powerful ecu, more so than any of the aftermarkets. I figured it was not as important to be able to
Tune each cylinder as I first thought. I think ot is a great debate and there are pros and cons on both sides. I am still leaning on my stock ecu now, so id someone wants a good deal on a xfi let me know. It is the complete LS setup with the XIM and billet 90mm TB. Although I am going to look into this new firmware and really think about this. Now I am more confused on the best route, thanks allot.:hissyfit:
It has allot of options, I like the Accel DFI also. I have not used the new Holley or Big Stuff, but John Meany is the man.
I had decided to use just a stock E38 because it is a very powerful ecu, more so than any of the aftermarkets. I figured it was not as important to be able to
Tune each cylinder as I first thought. I think ot is a great debate and there are pros and cons on both sides. I am still leaning on my stock ecu now, so id someone wants a good deal on a xfi let me know. It is the complete LS setup with the XIM and billet 90mm TB. Although I am going to look into this new firmware and really think about this. Now I am more confused on the best route, thanks allot.:hissyfit:
J. Abbott
Well-known member
Sorry typing on a phone
big_G
Blown Member
So what exactly will the E38 ECU do that my FAST XFI won't?
J. Abbott
Well-known member
The down fall of the E38 is the difficulty of tuning it. The E38 has better control over engine functions. For one it does not use a VE table, it has a 6 polynominal equation that makes up a virtual ve. In lamen terms it operates fast so you end up with better drivability. You also have more tunin maps outside of the VE that just gives you more control. Eventhough the XFI has internal logging, you can log the E38 with EFI Live and HP tuners without the laptop and they have better or more detailed scanning software.
The XFI and the aftermarket has tuning on the fly which is unbelieably nice and they send tuning info immediatly where as a stock system you have to flash. I am torn between the two, but with my engine I really need as mch control as possible. I may run it on the XFI first and see how it does first before deciding for sure to run the E38. The one huge pssitive for the XFI is it can run a 24 or 60-2 setup. With the E38 my LS1 engine is no good.
Like I said argument can go both ways they both have very strong reasons for running them.
The XFI and the aftermarket has tuning on the fly which is unbelieably nice and they send tuning info immediatly where as a stock system you have to flash. I am torn between the two, but with my engine I really need as mch control as possible. I may run it on the XFI first and see how it does first before deciding for sure to run the E38. The one huge pssitive for the XFI is it can run a 24 or 60-2 setup. With the E38 my LS1 engine is no good.
Like I said argument can go both ways they both have very strong reasons for running them.
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Bullshark
Well-known member
J, you are correct about GM's E38 and E67. They are very powerful ECU's, but the rub is that to tune the coefficients of the polynomial equation, EFI Live and HP tuners use a VE table like interface to approxamate the values. Not an optimum approach. GM just doesnt give you the tools to apply the power it offers. That is why I lean toward the newest Holley product line. VE tables are large offering more than adequate resolution.
Bullshark
Bullshark
J. Abbott
Well-known member
I would agree about the HP Tuners, that is normally what I use but the blue cat program is difficult. I bought EFI Live and have been learning it. I know they had spent a ton of money to make the interface between the equation and the "virtual" VE table. It is effortless in EFI and I have done only a couple of cars using EFI live, but they drive really well. We have a customer that we built a 705HP LS7 for. The came is fairly large and you can drive that car anywhere all day long. It does not run hot, it does not load up, it just drives like a stock Corvette. I think this is what maybe really re-thing the aftermarket ECU. The Silver C4 that I posted, that car had a Accel DFI in it, while it was way ahead of it's time compared to what was available on a C4, it just did not have the driveability of the stock ECU. Maybe it was my tuning in it I don't know. The car ran great wide open, driving around town it had some hiccups. Sometime you could pull up to a light and it would cut off. I spend probably a week of time trying to fix that, it came down to the ECU was not operating the IAC fast enough. So DFI's answer was to crack the throttle blades open using the set screw, well this caused the car to idle high. So now it is back in modifing the IAC table. Except now to get the car to idle right you have to cut the IAC off almost alltogether, guess what now you pull up to a light and it still cuts off. So the real solution was I had to learn to drive the car and blip the throttle everytime I pushed the clutch in, or if I had and emergency stop I had to release the clutch to jump the motor before I stopped rolling. With all the options you get on the aftermarket ECU's I guess it really comes down to what you are building. My race car is probably better suited to the XFI, but I still think I am going to run the E38 just to work on my tuning even more with those systems. For the right project though I would use an aftermarket ECU in a heartbeat.
On a side not, I have not used any of the new Holley stuff, I had used one of the ProInjection from Holley back in the early 90's on a bigblock 69. It was the system that had a TBI body and it had dials you could turn for fuel settings. There was no ignition side to it, just fuel. I never got that to run worth anything so a carb fixed that. I have just never gone back to a Holley FI because of that bad experience.
Justin
On a side not, I have not used any of the new Holley stuff, I had used one of the ProInjection from Holley back in the early 90's on a bigblock 69. It was the system that had a TBI body and it had dials you could turn for fuel settings. There was no ignition side to it, just fuel. I never got that to run worth anything so a carb fixed that. I have just never gone back to a Holley FI because of that bad experience.
Justin
