Dizzy oil.....

mrvette

mrvette

Phantom of the Opera
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
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15,194
Location
NE Florida
350 SBC roller or early block, there seems to be some strange action in the dizzy mount via the oiling passages to at least the lifters....

in the past I have never had troubles priming a engine with a drill in the dizzy hole and so to load up the pushrods to dripping.....but

they were not any SBC engines....so last years we were priming a SBC engine in a boat, and the drivers? side never dripped oil....Eric swore he saw a bunch of oil flowing around the screwdriver tip and so one side was not dripping on the rockers....so we installed the dizzy and everything was fine.....so we thought....so the boat ran fine for some 4-5 trips out....salt water cooled, and of course Mercruiser....

so, this last trip when the engine blew, my welder buddy saw some mainly AIR and oil puffing out of the dizzy base when engine not running well, but then something happened and it smoothed out and stopped the oil spitting, since it was running decent, they continued on out the ocean inlet and out at sea, they had the engine running fine in flat water, then went to trolling speed and after a couple hours the engine quit and locked up tight....

the destruction was complete and total, brand new engine, and NO clue except one of the center exhaust valves like cyl 5 was bent over and broken off the stem in place with nothing looking bad in the spring/retainer/keeper department....

the gaskets in the exhaust manifolds looked fine, not evidence of drinking cooling water down the exhause into the heads.....

hole in the cyl wall, piston is 50 chunks, valve cut in 1/2 on the parts coming outta the pan....hole in pan,

so boat towed and nearly 3 weeks before final tear down....and of course by then it didn't matter anyway, the damage was terminal rust or not....

so does anyone have ANY CLUE what happened???? anything???

the oil was checked previous to ALL outings, and so it looked good, the engine flushed out and drained completely of ALL water when put to bed....so WTF happened???

not only expensive, but the engine builder eating the whole damn thing now...but we need a clue as this is the 4-5th time that engine coming over that fucking transom and I getting tired of it.....I have the only hook with concrete drive and no homeowners assn to sweat over.....so I get elected....

anyone, any clues???

we going to name the boat it's MY choice, Eric the owner got NO sayso over it....the new name is


PARIAH.....


:censored::crap::eek:
 
When you prime an SBC , the correct tool has the dizzy housing as part of the tool, as the dizzy housing itself completes the oil passage to the driver's? side. You wont prime half the lifter bank with a drill and shaft.
That being said, after starting and running 4 trips, then failing, I havn't a clue. Are you using a Chevy Dizzy?
 
Is this Merc unit designed for an SBC. (I know little of boats).
 
Just like Jeff said: you need the correct priming tool and the correct distributor. You can get the priming tool free at the Zone (loaner).
 
71062200.jpg = No oil pressure on the upper half of the drivers side.

77866896_large.jpg = Oil, oil everywhere. :thumbs:
 
SBOilSystem2.jpg

this might help
 
MrVette.

Since the motor ran for many trips and idled trolling for several hours, then your method of priming whether right or wrong really shouldn't be an issue.

If using fresh water cooling and thus the cast iron heat exchanger exhaust manifolds, then I would say you sucked in water and started breaking up things. It doesn't take much. It is very common, they do not last long at all and corrode internally where the untrained eye can't tell. The manifolds are expensive and a lot of people not understanding the ramifications will not replace them as needed because of the expense.

Secondly, the oil out of the dizzy base indicates that you have either way too much oil pressure, a loose fit in the distributer/engine boss clearance, or a restricted oil passage in the drivers side. You didn't mention what the oil pressure showed or what oil was used. Marine usually used 160° tstats and a heavy oil is not recommended.

What would worry me more is that you said that this is the 5th time the engine has been out. that doesn't sound right.
 
010752 said:
MrVette.

Since the motor ran for many trips and idled trolling for several hours, then your method of priming whether right or wrong really shouldn't be an issue.

If using fresh water cooling and thus the cast iron heat exchanger exhaust manifolds, then I would say you sucked in water and started breaking up things. It doesn't take much. It is very common, they do not last long at all and corrode internally where the untrained eye can't tell. The manifolds are expensive and a lot of people not understanding the ramifications will not replace them as needed because of the expense.

Secondly, the oil out of the dizzy base indicates that you have either way too much oil pressure, a loose fit in the distributer/engine boss clearance, or a restricted oil passage in the drivers side. You didn't mention what the oil pressure showed or what oil was used. Marine usually used 160° tstats and a heavy oil is not recommended.

What would worry me more is that you said that this is the 5th time the engine has been out. that doesn't sound right.
Click to expand...

:bounce:You ain't kidding.....I wish I was along on that trip out there, as maybe I would know more about the final failure moments....them mercruiser exhausts parts, all 4 casting are brand freeking new.....so was the entire install, second off the engine was flushed every time it saw salt water, we even put grain cocks into the block so to drop the fresh water out of there and store it dry....they said the gauges seemed normal....but under that hatch and with that fucking Donzi exhaust its so damn loud that engine could have been suffering and no one would notice untill too late....

the boat was bought by Eric from yet another friend, Nick, and so it had sat for years in Nick's garage and maybe 2+ years ago Johnny and Nick borrowed my hook for about 6 months and put in the 'new' engine, but it was a total mess up on account of them not being very good mechanics, and not doing thing right, too boot there was a mismatch of parts on the flywheel and outdrive so that one cost us yet another removal.....seems the engine Nick had there was a mess up from whoever built it, and so it never ran right, something happened, and out it comes, and to the machine shop, it was a old tired boat engine some clown had tossed some parts into the rotating assy, and so it was old enough the machine shop swapped blocks and heads for automative stuff without the corrosion, common practice I"m told and so then use the marine blocks for automotive use so to limit the rust/corrosion and keep everyone happy.....

well we finally get this whole damn thing together for what we thought was the last time, and Eric lays his Harley on his knee and in the hospital for a couple weeks and flat on his back for 3+ months at home and off work and so no money/time/effort to get this engine into the boat, even being brand new, it sets in my garage all last summer on a stand all wrapped up in plastic....so we finally get it into the boat come last fall, and so it gets used only maybe4-5 times and only ONE trip out for me, on the river and a lunch at Hooters right there off the river in downtown Jax .....the boat ran FINE, new carb and all, the only OEM parts left were the Mercruiser dizzy and box....

NOW, the block being stored dry and flushed out, so the engine has been running a bit rough but when warmed up it would smooth out, I figger the choke is probably needing some WD40 or something, and the corrosion getting to it, no biggie....but I not in the boat since last Jan for the Hooters trip.....

almost 2 months ago, they out fishing in the ocean just past Mayport naval basin and so this calamity happened and well, we dunno.....they said it was running fine they idled down to troll, and it quit.....

I have my own opinions about what happened, and it's either one of two things.....they took water into the open Donzi style exhaust....OR, they over revved the engine when hitting a boat wake, and could not hear the problems, they said it ran fine after that, but I wonder.....

nothing else makes any sense.....I can say one thing though...for some reason the front accessories were just covered in old engine oil/grase/crap on them, 4 trips out and covered like it was ten years old???

want the truth, I think these duys shouldn't own a boat, ....:eek::trumpet:

seeing the exact nature of the total failure with the engine down on the bench I fail to see their story as lining up with the physical evidence.....I think they over revved the engine hitting a wake at speed, by cavitating the prop, and it swallowed a valve....from floating, the keepers/retainers/stem were in perfect position, but the exhaust valve head on number 6 was bent over and broken off.....MY honest opinion is the engine died from a over revving and did NOT run fine after that.....but I wasn't there.....

the exhaust mani's were fine, gaskets good, so no water should have gotten to the engine.....

:smash::twitch:
 
What about the oil at the distributer.

If you think they are not very good mechanics then the only thing you know is the evidence you see. 3rd hand descriptions are tough.
 
010752 said:
What about the oil at the distributer.

If you think they are not very good mechanics then the only thing you know is the evidence you see. 3rd hand descriptions are tough.
Click to expand...

Eric was at the helm and raised the engine hatch, Johnny looks at the engine and sees a couple spurts of oil coming outta the dizzy base....but then he says it stopped.....

I do wonder if crank case was full of water then....but even if it was....HOW in hell it get there?? the intake showed no evidence of leakage, the block looks fine except for the hole in the cylinder that had the destruction, the then new exhaust manis had good gaskets, clean install, no failure evidence....

so a whole bunch of us are here scratching our asses over this.....
the engine shop guy thinks it MUST have been a piston failure that it broke and hit the valve, but I never heard of that happening on ANY engine, EVER....but how in hell just ONE valve floated IF the enginen severely over revved on that wake/cavitation....should have kissed a bunch I would think....or some signs of whatever close.....

all I can say is the broken valve head shows the stem was bent over some 45 degrees or close, and the head shows damage where the valve was forced sideways into the iron leaving a good gash right between the valve seats, and of course it was broken off cleanly, leaving the stem and spring/retainers/keepers intact up top.....

why ME Lord, WTF did I do to keep repeating this damn tread mill with this fucking Pariah in my driveway......I don't mind helping out a friend, but this is getting like a freeking bad marriage already, and I not a fag so no sex benefits out of it too boot.....:clobbered::zzz:

the damn boat is named the PARIAH.....he has NO CHOICE.....


:clobbered::clobbered:
 
mrvette said:
010752 said:
What about the oil at the distributer.

If you think they are not very good mechanics then the only thing you know is the evidence you see. 3rd hand descriptions are tough.
Click to expand...

Eric was at the helm and raised the engine hatch, Johnny looks at the engine and sees a couple spurts of oil coming outta the dizzy base....but then he says it stopped.....

I do wonder if crank case was full of water then....but even if it was....HOW in hell it get there?? the intake showed no evidence of leakage, the block looks fine except for the hole in the cylinder that had the destruction, the then new exhaust manis had good gaskets, clean install, no failure evidence....

so a whole bunch of us are here scratching our asses over this.....
the engine shop guy thinks it MUST have been a piston failure that it broke and hit the valve, but I never heard of that happening on ANY engine, EVER....but how in hell just ONE valve floated IF the enginen severely over revved on that wake/cavitation....should have kissed a bunch I would think....or some signs of whatever close.....

all I can say is the broken valve head shows the stem was bent over some 45 degrees or close, and the head shows damage where the valve was forced sideways into the iron leaving a good gash right between the valve seats, and of course it was broken off cleanly, leaving the stem and spring/retainers/keepers intact up top.....

why ME Lord, WTF did I do to keep repeating this damn tread mill with this fucking Pariah in my driveway......I don't mind helping out a friend, but this is getting like a freeking bad marriage already, and I not a fag so no sex benefits out of it too boot.....:clobbered::zzz:

the damn boat is named the PARIAH.....he has NO CHOICE.....


:clobbered::clobbered:
Click to expand...

I have seen one valve stick in the quide and destroy the piston. Not sure if it is the case with your engine, but it has happened.:bonkers:
 
:clobbered::clobbered:[/QUOTE]

I have seen one valve stick in the quide and destroy the piston. Not sure if it is the case with your engine, but it has happened.:bonkers:[/QUOTE]


It would be a first for ME.....never even heard of such a thing.....

if it was a sailboat, it would be Mariah the Pariah.....

:hunter::cussing:
 
mrvette said:
:clobbered::clobbered:
Click to expand...

I have seen one valve stick in the quide and destroy the piston. Not sure if it is the case with your engine, but it has happened.:bonkers:[/QUOTE]


It would be a first for ME.....never even heard of such a thing.....

if it was a sailboat, it would be Mariah the Pariah.....

:hunter::cussing:[/QUOTE]


Generally it's from tight guide clearance ( lack of oil is another ). If the engine gets up in temp and the guide tightens on the stem of the valve it can stick. It's not real common but I have seen it on a few engines back in the 80s. It's generally an exhaust valve that does this. Weak valve springs can help cause this with the tight guides too.

Like I said, it may not be what caused the problem, but it never hurts to check.:)
 
glenn64vette said:
mrvette said:
:clobbered::clobbered:
Click to expand...

I have seen one valve stick in the quide and destroy the piston. Not sure if it is the case with your engine, but it has happened.:bonkers:
Click to expand...


It would be a first for ME.....never even heard of such a thing.....

if it was a sailboat, it would be Mariah the Pariah.....

:hunter::cussing:[/QUOTE]


Generally it's from tight guide clearance ( lack of oil is another ). If the engine gets up in temp and the guide tightens on the stem of the valve it can stick. It's not real common but I have seen it on a few engines back in the 80s. It's generally an exhaust valve that does this. Weak valve springs can help cause this with the tight guides too.

Like I said, it may not be what caused the problem, but it never hurts to check.:)[/QUOTE]

Dont matter now, the whole damn engine goes to the dump.....

:shocking:
 
mrvette said:
glenn64vette said:
mrvette said:
:clobbered::clobbered:
Click to expand...

I have seen one valve stick in the quide and destroy the piston. Not sure if it is the case with your engine, but it has happened.:bonkers:
Click to expand...


It would be a first for ME.....never even heard of such a thing.....

if it was a sailboat, it would be Mariah the Pariah.....

:hunter::cussing:
Click to expand...


Generally it's from tight guide clearance ( lack of oil is another ). If the engine gets up in temp and the guide tightens on the stem of the valve it can stick. It's not real common but I have seen it on a few engines back in the 80s. It's generally an exhaust valve that does this. Weak valve springs can help cause this with the tight guides too.

Like I said, it may not be what caused the problem, but it never hurts to check.:)[/QUOTE]

Dont matter now, the whole damn engine goes to the dump.....

:shocking:[/QUOTE]

It's just nice to know WHY. :drink:
 
It's just nice to know WHY. :drink:[/QUOTE]


U and me both man, I really really really HATE pulling crap apart time and time and time over again it's getting BORING already and in 100f 90% humidity heat bright sun, well, lets say I can think of a cold beer and say fuck it, till winter.....:devil:


:devil::devil::clobbered::bump:course Eric and Johnny are industrial welders used to being inside HELL all day long, and about 40-50 y/o too.....I"m too damn old for that shit....:bump::zzz:
 
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