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  1. phantomjock

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    Yes the edge does keep the flow from "wrapping around". Here you can see the CFD streamlines over the fenders "wrap" (also pushed by the windscreen) - but note they are "tripped by the A-Pillar. You's want to keep the low pressure under the car from filling and losing the downforce you'd...
  2. rtj

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    “BUT, when you take the louvers out of the hole in the ACR fender, air, pieces of rubber, birds, and small children are expelled straight up out the hole and you can feel the increase in downforce. “ Very graphic description, ACR’s are bad ass cars. Always wanted one. Duntov sells Corvette...
  3. phantomjock

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    Pappy - It's great to have "real-life" info like you've passed along. I can say from my experience (on the sports racer) there was a noted difference pre and post louvers. This season, I'll be capturing "real" data to verify. Plan includes A-B testing with louvers, open - and filled...
  4. rtj

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    In FL I opened up the fender louvres a lot, as the carb would vapor lock. Seemed to help a little. But on a 75 they are originally small. A small fan would help. Best change I made with factory helt belt driven fan was a pusher fan in front of the rad. Duntov sells the louvers for the...
  5. phantomjock

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    That is a Great Question. I had to go ask the Oracle: Then, since my car is so torn up, a little digging on the chassis details: The challenge to getting the air out of the wheel well will be the inner fender well. With some modifications, yes, I bet it would help. And, you could...
  6. phantomjock

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    ...on the hood, and a good place to exit under hood air with a hood louver. A lot of holes - so find a scrap hood to work with! On to Fender Louvers... This treatment on a 2003 Lister Prototype shows effective treatment of the wheel well, fender and surrounds. Not exactly a C3, but this...
  7. phantomjock

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    Fender Louvers (Continued) Found the missing pic(s). This from Katz Race Car Aerodynamics Katz adds in the explanation of the figure: my emphasis For 69427: Seems like cutting louvers in the fenders would give you less weight AND downforce for the front end grip you want! And this...
  8. phantomjock

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    ...diagram does raise the importance of sealing the radiator to keep flow moving along and not "circling back" or becoming cross flow. And here is another look at the flow in a wheel well: The diagram does lend credence to using the gills or fender louvers to evacuate the wheel well. Cheers...
  9. 69427

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    In Jim's post above, I've always liked the idea of dual radiators on the sides of the engine. My personal reason is that I like the idea of moving the radiator (and coolant) weight rearward, instead of its normal position ahead of the front axle line (which degrades the c/g location and...
  10. phantomjock

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    Somewhere [I'll look but will be a few] I have [or think so] some info on lift reduction with fender louvers. Mayee in Mcbeeth's text, or another. Do have some radiator inner body cooling info - but not 'vette specific. I have reversed the gills on the side of the fenders and am mounting 2...
  11. mfain

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    Here is something you can take as tested gospel. The vents above the wheel on the Viper ACR WILL NOT extract air from the wheel well when the louvers are installed. The air is wrapping around the wheel in the direction of rotation and it cannot make the 135 degree turn to exit the louvers. I...
  12. mfain

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    ...creates an airflow pattern that pushes air FORWARD at the top of the tire. That air can't make the sharp 135 degree turn to exit the fender louvers. With the louvers removed, the air escapes vertically as verified by yarn tuft tests I have done. The openings in the fender would probably be...
  13. mfain

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    A couple of comments. You don't want to dump air downward out of the engine bay - that causes a high pressure area and kills downforce. Better to vent upward through the hood, or out side vents. As to cutting a painted surface, I just cut fender air pressure relief holes in a buddy's $20K...
  14. phantomjock

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    ...air curtain, or diffusers incorporated like this: and: For now the hood just has a HUGE gaping "hole" to dump air - pending testing: You can see the engine bay is totally isolated from the radiator. The fender louvers are in, and the hood scoop is no longer in play -- too big! Cheers - Jim
  15. mfain

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    Here are a couple of my lessons-learned regarding dumping air pressure from the wheel wells and associated lift/downforce. The Viper ACR has a large louver over the front wheel with a removable grill. Using yarn tufts on the grill at speed I see almost no airflow exiting above the fender. Of...
  16. 69427

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    Good topic. I'll enjoy the discussion. Just my perspective/reasoning here. I like the look/function of the upper fender louvers, but I've put a self-imposed restriction on myself for most body mods (I like the stock/sleeper look), so I haven't gone to the vented fender option. What I have done...
  17. phantomjock

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    vette427sbc; I'll have to dig through a couple of hdd to find the pics - or uncover all the junk on the chassis to get some pics. Got one: I bought a set of reverse gills to replace the stock gills. They basically look like the ones on the Lister Fender above, but only 4 (or so) but stand...
  18. 69427

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    I can't argue with the facts/physics of your statement. But as I mentioned earlier, I like the stock/sleeper look of my antique. My personal experience on track days is that my car gets little to no attention before the sessions (as it's just a stock looking old car), but I frequently get guys...
  19. vette427sbc

    Internal Body Aerodynamics

    ...a smaller (ie: lighter) radiator could be used also. The airflow in the nose pre-radiator has got to be a turbulent mess. RTJ- The fender louvers you opened up were 68-69 gills? or the 73+ vent? The gills look like they may not be optimal for higher speed exiting airflow... Jim- Ive been...
  20. J

    73+ Style Fender Louver Panel for '70-72

    Hello All, Looking for a set of fender panels to replicate the look of a 73-Up C3 on a 68-72 C3 as in the attached photo. Anyone have some?
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