removing power steering

[joehalford01]

Hey guys, how's it going. I'm getting ready to do some serious weight reduction and engine bay simplification on my 80 L-82. I'd like to go to manual steering, it looks like everyone swaps in kits, rack and pinion etc. I'm just curious, what's the difference between the power steering vettes and the manual steering? Is all the linkage the same, with the power steering ram added to it as well as a looser ratio steering box? If so, I'm comtemplating pulling the power steering stuff and seeing how much harder it is to drive...thoughts?

 

[mrvette]

AFAIK the stock steering ratios are the same and give 3.7 turns R-L on the wheel.....

the Borgeson box and racks do 2.7 turns.....

wife can drive her manual steering Miata ok.....I have a power rack on the vette....

on the motor home, I added power steering at 3.7 turns, the old manual setup was about 6 turns, and Linda was NOT going to be able to drive it,...no matter what....

I have 255/50/17 in front and a basic L98 type engine with headers....'72 vert

:mobeer:

 

[joehalford01]

Ok, so the boxes are the same-thats awesome, i just did a search and saw where someone mentioned moving the ties-rods to the front position versus the rear and backing off the caster when removing the power steering and going to manual. Anything else I should be on the look-out for?

 

[BBShark]

Ok, so the boxes are the same-thats awesome, i just did a search and saw where someone mentioned moving the ties-rods to the front position versus the rear and backing off the caster when removing the power steering and going to manual. Anything else I should be on the look-out for?

The tie rod ends need to be moved from the front hole (front of the car) to the rear hole. Chances are that hole is filled with a babbit material and will need to be reamed out. The pitman arm is also slightly different to PS vs. MS.

It might be a good time to adjust the backlash in the steering gear.

 

[joehalford01]

The tie rod ends need to be moved from the front hole (front of the car) to the rear hole. Chances are that hole is filled with a babbit material and will need to be reamed out. The pitman arm is also slightly different to PS vs. MS.

It might be a good time to adjust the backlash in the steering gear.

Ok, good to know. I'll need to throw it up on jackstands and take a look.

 

[Fuelie74]

Ok, so the boxes are the same-thats awesome, i just did a search and saw where someone mentioned moving the ties-rods to the front position versus the rear and backing off the caster when removing the power steering and going to manual. Anything else I should be on the look-out for?

Not for sure, but I thought I remembered reading that the manual steering holes were missing on some of the C3's.

 

[68/70Vette]

The manual steering requires a different relay rod. This is the rod that connects the relay rods. You can get the relay rod from salvage yards or from the Corvette vendors. Also, I think you need a different Pitman arm.

Manual steering works ok as long as the car is moving. Parking, even with the stock tires, is a bear. It really takes a lot of arm muscle power.

I converted from manual to power because of another reason. When parking as you pull up to one of those concrete stops, if you run into the concrete sideways, the steering wheel will suddenly make a snap rotation. The aluminum spokes on the steering wheel will make a sudden impact into your thumbs. It's really painful. After a few occurrances of this I went to power steering.

If you go to manual steering, you might want to look at the steering wheel from a 68. They are about an inch greater diameter, so you get a little more torque steering manually.

One thing bad about the factory power steering is that it reflects GM's steering philosophy of the 50's and 60's. In those days a good power steering was one that had no road feel at all. My 68's power steering requires almost no steering wheel pressure at all to steer. I could steer and park the car with my little finger. With my 68's aftermarket stiff suspension, I often bounce around inside the car and that motion translates into steering motions with the steering wheel. Makes it hard to control the car.

My 08 steering is power, but it provides a lot of feedback. In a tight turn at high speed, it requires a noticeable force on the steering wheel to keep it in the turn. On the 68, there's none of this feedback. On a tight turn, there's no pressure on the steering wheel at all.

 

[joehalford01]

Yea, I used to have a 63 chevy truck with manual steering, the guy before put a tiny little grant steering wheel on it and i quickly learned to drive with my thumbs on the outside of the wheel. I totally forgot about that lol.

I'm suprised more people havn't switched their cars over to manual steering versus buying the manual rack and pinion kits, or do they just not talk about it? I'm sure the rack and pinion is better but a $1000 is a $1000 and from the reviews it still sounds like it is hard to steer.

 

[mrvette]

Yea, I used to have a 63 chevy truck with manual steering, the guy before put a tiny little grant steering wheel on it and i quickly learned to drive with my thumbs on the outside of the wheel. I totally forgot about that lol.

I'm suprised more people havn't switched their cars over to manual steering versus buying the manual rack and pinion kits, or do they just not talk about it? I'm sure the rack and pinion is better but a $1000 is a $1000 and from the reviews it still sounds like it is hard to steer.

3.7 turns R-L is kinda a lot of twists on a moderned up car....

which was my largest reason for the power rack....

:gurney:

 

[Blue Juice]

Do it, do it now!!

I did this exact same swap last year.

The power steering didn't leak, but there was alot of free play and after a tight slow corner the steering didn't self centre. I think there were issues with the control valve.

Rather than try and fix it, I bought a second-hand pitman arm and relay rod (that connects the pitman to the steering tie-rods).

I re-built my original 'box, fitted a brand new rag joint and moved the tie-rods on to the inner holes.

At first I thought I’d made a mistake, the steering was harder than I expected and the reduced ratio after being so used to the power steering seemed wrong too.
After a couple of days though I started getting used to it and then after an adrenaline filled morning driving through some wonderful winding country roads at breakneck speed I was totally won over.

The feedback from the road is better, there is absolutely zero slack or play, and I have less “stuff” to maintain, repair or crack my knuckles on.

It's probably a personal opinion, but I don't feel the increased number of turns lock to lock is a problem, in fact I occationally over reacted with the power steering, and this was something I considered prior to the swap.

I also can't think what difference there could be between a correctly set up steering box and a correctly set up rack.

And although I’ll never notice the difference, there must be more power to the wheels thanks to the loss of the pump from the motor.

 

[mrvette]

I did this exact same swap last year.

The power steering didn't leak, but there was alot of free play and after a tight slow corner the steering didn't self centre. I think there were issues with the control valve.

Rather than try and fix it, I bought a second-hand pitman arm and relay rod (that connects the pitman to the steering tie-rods).

I re-built my original 'box, fitted a brand new rag joint and moved the tie-rods on to the inner holes.

At first I thought I’d made a mistake, the steering was harder than I expected and the reduced ratio after being so used to the power steering seemed wrong too.
After a couple of days though I started getting used to it and then after an adrenaline filled morning driving through some wonderful winding country roads at breakneck speed I was totally won over.

The feedback from the road is better, there is absolutely zero slack or play, and I have less “stuff” to maintain, repair or crack my knuckles on.

It's probably a personal opinion, but I don't feel the increased number of turns lock to lock is a problem, in fact I occationally over reacted with the power steering, and this was something I considered prior to the swap.

I also can't think what difference there could be between a correctly set up steering box and a correctly set up rack.

And although I’ll never notice the difference, there must be more power to the wheels thanks to the loss of the pump from the motor.

Welcome to the motley crew Blue Juice...I see it's your first post...:drink:

 

[Blue Juice]

Thanks for the welcome, but I confess I've been a member here for a couple of years.
I'm more of listener than a talker. Sniper forum member.

This thread caught my eye though! I read so many post in the forums about various racks and steering options. Personally I figured if I could make the genuine equipment work better then why bother.

I've always liked my road cars to look original but behave as well as possible.
The steering box is right at home in its wee corner. So that's where I left it.

Cheers,
Douglas

 

[joehalford01]

Thanks for the welcome, but I confess I've been a member here for a couple of years.
I'm more of listener than a talker. Sniper forum member.

This thread caught my eye though! I read so many post in the forums about various racks and steering options. Personally I figured if I could make the genuine equipment work better then why bother.

I've always liked my road cars to look original but behave as well as possible.
The steering box is right at home in its wee corner. So that's where I left it.

Cheers,
Douglas

That's exactly the kind of feed back I was looking for bluejuice. Really appreciate it. I think it's time for me to keep an eye out for some used parts...or budget in some new replacements. Either way, sounds like a good plan.

 

[joehalford01]

Hey guys, I thought I'd post my feedback on this mod. It took me about three hours Saturday to pull the power-steering ram, lines, and pump. I was worried that I wouldn't be happy and I am floored at how little the power-steering actually affected things lol. It's a little stiffer at parking speeds and you can feel that it's missing but in all honesty, it's still easier to drive then my girlfriends 67 mustang that came with manual steering. I'm so glad I ditched it. I'll be finishing up the other details later but so far I'm happy. :1st: