Stuck on start

B

Beagle 1

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Joined
Mar 25, 2008
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332
Location
Orange Co. Ca
Well, in the never ending fight to keep the '69 running correctly, I was looking at a couple of problems this morning. And as usual, something else went wrong :cussing:
The ignition switch stuck in the start position. When bumping and releasing the key, the starter continued to run even though the key was turned to the stop position. When I worked the key back and forth a few times, the starter finally disengaged. I tried it a few more times and it did it again.
So I whip out the manual and it says to drop the steering column and continue on. Whoa, stop right there. I really would like to not drop the column unless necessary. It seems like the steering column key lock is connected by a rod to the actual switch located lower on the column.
So, does anyone have any experience as to what would be the most likely problem part, before I start tearing things apart?
I'm assuming that the key switch is strictly mechanical, and if it retreats from the start position to the run position, then it is OK.
So, either the rod is sticking or the lower switch is sticking? Any springs on anything that could have broken of fallen off?
 
I think JimL82 has posted here some nice links or info on steering column diagrams and repair procedures.....the thing has a cast aluminum piece that accommodates from the key sw output cam/peg to the rod that actuates the electrical side of things...

if that breaks, it jambs and there is also another piece in there too, also famous for breaking.....

I can't find the words to describe the pix...but do a search here and we have the information on file....pretty sure, if not PM/email him....
 
Here is a pic of the cast piece MrVette was referring too.
You can see it was bent prior to breaking.
I polish all the mating parts and lube with a lite teflon grease.

BTW, I now have the same problem with mine, but I can force it to return so far.

Rack2.jpg
 
010752 said:
Here is a pic of the cast piece MrVette was referring too.
You can see it was bent prior to breaking.
I polish all the mating parts and lube with a lite teflon grease.

BTW, I now have the same problem with mine, but I can force it to return so far.

Rack2.jpg
Click to expand...

Well this sucks. Looks like tear down time.
Is this part available???

Thanks MrVette and 010752
 
OK, I pulled the steering coulum apart but can't get the key switch out. I can push in the plunger, but the switch doesn't slide out.
So, before I go beserk and break something, I need to reconsider the problem.
When I turn the switch to the start position, then let it spring return to the run position, the starter keeps running. I keep turning the key off and on, and the starter is still engaged. I pulled the battery cable and the starter stoped. Put the cable back on and the starter is still stopped till I turn the key to start, and then it sticks on. I'm thinking that the key switch is working correctly--I can see the plunger rod move in and out, and it does not physically jam in the start position. Connecting and disconnecting the battery resets the system to normal.
So, now I'm wondering if the starter solenoid is sticking and the starter keeps running as long as power cable is still attached to the battery?
Is this possible?
 
Point of information. The actual ignition switch is mounted on top of the steering column jacket and is located down under the dash. The ignition lock cylinder is the part in the column head where you insert your ignition key.

The ignition lock cylinder is connected to a plastic gear inside the column head. That gear engages the die cast rack shown in the previous pictures. That rack connects to a rod that extends down under the dash to the actual switch. The switch has an internal spring that should push the switch contacts out of the START position and into RUN. So it is the actual switch that is pushing back and it is the switch spring that you can feel as you rotate your ignition key into the START position.

It doesn't seem to me that a broken rack would cause the ignition switch to stick. A broken rack would most likely not allow the switch to move at all.

IgnitionSchematic.jpg
If you are going to drop the column and have access to the ignition switch. You will note that the above wiring schematic indicates that when the switch is moved into the START position, IGN-1, BAT-1, and SOL are all connected. Move out of START and they will all be open. Actuating the switch into and out of the START position and checking continuinty should tell you if there is a ignition switch problem.

One tip. There is a basic difference between the standard (non-adjustable) steering column ignition switch and a T&T (or a tilt) column switch. They operate in opposite directions and so the contacts are exactly opposite each other. The switch in the above schematic is the standard column switch. You are looking directly into the switch as it is mounted on the column jacket. Note that the IGN-1, BAT-1, and SOL contacts are all three exactly in a line. On the other end of the switch only GRD-2 and GRD-1 are in line. So just check the three contacts in a line for the START condition.

Jim
 
Last edited:
Beagle, your problem sounds like the starter drive (bendix) is sticking in the ring gear on the flywheel or rust gunk ect build up on the solenoid plunger and causing it to stick. Stan.
 
sssuch said:
Beagle, your problem sounds like the starter drive (bendix) is sticking in the ring gear on the flywheel or rust gunk ect build up on the solenoid plunger and causing it to stick. Stan.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is my current best guess. I got side tracked on the column switches, but I think I'll pull the starter first.
Thanks all
 
Beagle 1 said:
sssuch said:
Beagle, your problem sounds like the starter drive (bendix) is sticking in the ring gear on the flywheel or rust gunk ect build up on the solenoid plunger and causing it to stick. Stan.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is my current best guess. I got side tracked on the column switches, but I think I'll pull the starter first.
Thanks all
Click to expand...

May take some jumper cables and clip leads to that dawg, and lay it under the tire wedged in with a cinder block or your foot, then try the 'starting' the car, and watch the action.....

they will torque over pretty good, which is why I would wedge it tight under the tire....:hi:
 
mrvette said:
Beagle 1 said:
sssuch said:
Beagle, your problem sounds like the starter drive (bendix) is sticking in the ring gear on the flywheel or rust gunk ect build up on the solenoid plunger and causing it to stick. Stan.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is my current best guess. I got side tracked on the column switches, but I think I'll pull the starter first.
Thanks all
Click to expand...

May take some jumper cables and clip leads to that dawg, and lay it under the tire wedged in with a cinder block or your foot, then try the 'starting' the car, and watch the action.....

they will torque over pretty good, which is why I would wedge it tight under the tire....:hi:
Click to expand...

Yea, but what fun would that be? Miss the fun of starting it on the bench and wondering which direction it would go before it ripped itself loose from the jumper cables and flew across the gararge? :rofl:
Thanks for the tip.
 
Beagle 1 said:
mrvette said:
Beagle 1 said:
sssuch said:
Beagle, your problem sounds like the starter drive (bendix) is sticking in the ring gear on the flywheel or rust gunk ect build up on the solenoid plunger and causing it to stick. Stan.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is my current best guess. I got side tracked on the column switches, but I think I'll pull the starter first.
Thanks all
Click to expand...

May take some jumper cables and clip leads to that dawg, and lay it under the tire wedged in with a cinder block or your foot, then try the 'starting' the car, and watch the action.....

they will torque over pretty good, which is why I would wedge it tight under the tire....:hi:
Click to expand...

Yea, but what fun would that be? Miss the fun of starting it on the bench and wondering which direction it would go before it ripped itself loose from the jumper cables and flew across the gararge? :rofl:
Thanks for the tip.
Click to expand...

:lol::lol:

I can laugh NOW, but I guarandamnTEE you I did just that, and that damn thing went off the driveway UP in the air,and damn nearly killed my dumb ass....took me a case of beer to settle down again....muffa ducker....

:sos::suicide:
 
I dropped the starter and looked it over real good. Ran it quite a few times on my battery charger. Everything appeared nornal.
The only thing that MAY have been out of spec was the 1 way clutch on the drive gear. I remember that the clutch pressure was fairly stiff even when new, but it did seem to lighten up as I exercized it today. It appears to be a sealed unit, and therefore not adjustable or greaseable.
Anyway, I slapped it back together and it seems like the problem is solved.
But, things like this make me nervous, as I don't really know if I fixed it.

Anyone know anything about the 1 way drive unit on the starter gear?
Could this be the problem, and is it likely to bind up again?

Think I'll run for a while without tightening the bolt on the battery cable clamp, as removing the batt cable was the only way I could get the starter to stop.
 
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