Question for L-88 experts

Kid Vette said:
I think you're missing the point, Dep. I'm sure they are using some custom compunds/treatments in the tires and the tracks are certainly prepped better than 40 years ago. And I'm sure that everybody is tweaking as much as they can get away with. Not just the L-88s but all the competitors are doing this.

The thing that stands out to me is everybody has always thought that Vettes could not compete in drag racing with the stock rearend and suspension. Now 3 years in a row different Vettes have blown away all the other big dogs from the muscle car heydays of the '60s! I just can't wait for somebody to campaign a '69 ZL-1 Vette!!
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Like I said....the musclecars they are beating aren't really set up for Pure Stock drags. They were made as PLATFORMS for race cars. Slap the same size and make of slicks on a ZL-1 Camaro and an L-88 and you will get very different results.
 
Speaking of 69 ZL-1,Midwest vette restoration here in Kearney is restoring a 69 vette,and it has the alum ZL-1 motor in it :shocking: I asked the shop owner that i thought there was only 2 of them? he said yeah supposedly that is all there is,but there were quite a few of the motors built for race teams and that most of them have been run through the mill pretty hard or blown up,he found this one in CA,still in the crate and has never been run,he would not say exactly where it came from or how much. He did start it up for me and all i can say is DAMM it sounded nice,next time i go up there i will take my camera and see if i get some pics of it.
 
Ok, This is going to be dangerous....there is a class of racing that is above what we have been discussing that requires the cars to look stock; but opens the rules some. Here is a link that talks about this.http://www.hotrod.com/eventcoverage/hrdp_0702_hemi_vs_buick/results.htmlIf some of the weights seem heavy, think what a 100-200lb flat plate mounted high above the gas tank could do toward helping traction. Also I know that these cars run on horse power and the L-88 can make the power needed upstairs to make up for a soft launch better than an engine that makes its power down low. This is the same rule that applies to street racing for the most part. I have never ran a Corvette with factory bias ply tires to comment on their traction; but there is something that distinctively jumps out in my mind that I recall from a conversation with one of my Dad's friends as well as my Dad. Granted his car was a 67 I think that it might apply here as well. On factory tires, Dad's 67 responded to shocking the tires better than trying to baby the car out of the hole. The rational was that the initial "shock" got the weight to the rear tires quicker. Shifting is the same way. A good power shift keeps the car settled in; but a granny farm truck shift lets the weight and momentum roll back forward. More than one of my Dad's friends commented that his 67 would put air under the left front tire on the 1-2 shifts. All he ever did with the car was street race and the only track time that it ever saw was when they did not time. One of his friends had a 69 striper Nova with a 396/375 4spd., L-88 cam, and 4.88 gears. Best time it ever ran was 12.11. The Vette put it on him by 5 cars. Indecently the 67 was not one of 20; but was a dealer installed L-88 car. The more I think about it the more I am getting a wild hair to try this factory stock thing out.
 
Kid Vette said:
I think you're missing the point, Dep. I'm sure they are using some custom compunds/treatments in the tires and the tracks are certainly prepped better than 40 years ago. And I'm sure that everybody is tweaking as much as they can get away with. Not just the L-88s but all the competitors are doing this.

The thing that stands out to me is everybody has always thought that Vettes could not compete in drag racing with the stock rearend and suspension. Now 3 years in a row different Vettes have blown away all the other big dogs from the muscle car heydays of the '60s! I just can't wait for somebody to campaign a '69 ZL-1 Vette!!
Click to expand...

Weren't there only 2 ZL1's made?
 
SmokinBBC said:
Kid Vette said:
I think you're missing the point, Dep. I'm sure they are using some custom compunds/treatments in the tires and the tracks are certainly prepped better than 40 years ago. And I'm sure that everybody is tweaking as much as they can get away with. Not just the L-88s but all the competitors are doing this.

The thing that stands out to me is everybody has always thought that Vettes could not compete in drag racing with the stock rearend and suspension. Now 3 years in a row different Vettes have blown away all the other big dogs from the muscle car heydays of the '60s! I just can't wait for somebody to campaign a '69 ZL-1 Vette!!
Click to expand...

Weren't there only 2 ZL1's made?
Click to expand...

By St Louis, yes, supposedly......

and about 5000 clones......

:hunter::bounce:
 
SmokinBBC said:
Kid Vette said:
I think you're missing the point, Dep. I'm sure they are using some custom compunds/treatments in the tires and the tracks are certainly prepped better than 40 years ago. And I'm sure that everybody is tweaking as much as they can get away with. Not just the L-88s but all the competitors are doing this.

The thing that stands out to me is everybody has always thought that Vettes could not compete in drag racing with the stock rearend and suspension. Now 3 years in a row different Vettes have blown away all the other big dogs from the muscle car heydays of the '60s! I just can't wait for somebody to campaign a '69 ZL-1 Vette!!
Click to expand...

Weren't there only 2 ZL1's made?
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GENE and you are correct. 2 original ZL-1 Vettes and about a zillion clones. Same thing for L-88s. Not very many made and a zillion clones. So right there I question their being "stock". ;)
Quite a bunch of ZL-1 Camaros were made. Am I wrong that cams in the ZL-1were different than the L-88? I know there was an optional cam for the ZL-1 that was pretty hairy. I got all this stuff in books still boxed up somewhere. An old one called "How to Hot Rod Big Block Chevys".
 
18436572 said:
If I remember right the ZL1 cam had .020 more lift than the L88.
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I don't have the specs in front of me, so I will round the lift numbers. I will look tonight to get the exact numbers; but for now here is some data on the L-88 and ZL-1 cams. To begin with there were at least 2 L-88 cams used in the Corvette. I have heard different stories on this; but for now just keep in mind that there was a first design released in 1967 with part number 3925535 . It is often referred to as the 535 cam. It had more lift than the later design with .560" Intake and .580" Exh. Lift. @.050" duration was 264/269 and lobe separation was 112°.1968 and 69 L-88s got a 3928909. The lift rating for that cam was dropped to .540"/.560". Duration and LCA remain same as 67.
The ZL-1 uses the same cam as the LS-7 over the counter engines part number 3959180. It specs. out with .580"intake and .620" exhaust lift. Duration is also slightly different with @.050" numbers coming in at 262/273 and 110°LCA. Once again I will look tonight to get more accurate numbers; but the moral of the story is the L-88 does not have the same cam as the ZL-1.

Also, remember that the late L-88's got the same heads as the ZL-1 where as the early ones had the closed chamber aluminum head.

A ZL-1 in a Vette would be really cool due to the fact that you not only have the best chassis platform; but you also have the best exhaust manifolds compared to the Camaro ZL-1's.
 
Mr.L-88 said:
A ZL-1 in a Vette would be really cool due to the fact that you not only have the best chassis platform; but you also have the best exhaust manifolds compared to the Camaro ZL-1's.
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Maybe for that alleged Pure Stock class. But for REAL drag racing, the solid rear axle has it all over the Corvette/Corvair IRS. Screw the stock exhaust manifolds. Rip them off and put headers on them. That whole Pure Stock class is a made up syle of racing to make certain car owners feel good. If the L-88 Corvette was so spectacular for drag racing, it would BE drag racing in NHRA stock class. World record for A/SA is a Ford Fairlane. Top A/S stick is a 1968 Camaro.
 
Maybe for that alleged Pure Stock class. But for REAL drag racing, the solid rear axle has it all over the Corvette/Corvair IRS. Screw the stock exhaust manifolds. Rip them off and put headers on them. That whole Pure Stock class is a made up syle of racing to make certain car owners feel good. If the L-88 Corvette was so spectacular for drag racing, it would BE drag racing in NHRA stock class. World record for A/SA is a Ford Fairlane. Top A/S stick is a 1968 Camaro.
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I think that NHRA stock is a made up style of racing to make certain car owners feel good. Give it time and I am sure that whining will get to the point that the factory stock rules will be changed to limit the reign of terror. Every other sanctioning body has done it, so why stop now. Aside from whether these cars are "Real" race cars they are running pretty respectable times for being on wide ovals. For those who don't like it there are other forms of racing.

Dep, How much would a L-88 Vette have to weigh to compete in A/SA or A/S? How much do the record holders you mentioned weigh?
 
I don't have the NHRA rulebook so can't give you that information. But they will certainly fit in one of those upper classes.
 
Mr.L-88 said:
18436572 said:
If I remember right the ZL1 cam had .020 more lift than the L88.
Click to expand...

I don't have the specs in front of me, so I will round the lift numbers. I will look tonight to get the exact numbers; but for now here is some data on the L-88 and ZL-1 cams. To begin with there were at least 2 L-88 cams used in the Corvette. I have heard different stories on this; but for now just keep in mind that there was a first design released in 1967 with part number 3925535 . It is often referred to as the 535 cam. It had more lift than the later design with .560" Intake and .580" Exh. Lift. @.050" duration was 264/269 and lobe separation was 112°.1968 and 69 L-88s got a 3928909. The lift rating for that cam was dropped to .540"/.560". Duration and LCA remain same as 67.
The ZL-1 uses the same cam as the LS-7 over the counter engines part number 3959180. It specs. out with .580"intake and .620" exhaust lift. Duration is also slightly different with @.050" numbers coming in at 262/273 and 110°LCA. Once again I will look tonight to get more accurate numbers; but the moral of the story is the L-88 does not have the same cam as the ZL-1.

Also, remember that the late L-88's got the same heads as the ZL-1 where as the early ones had the closed chamber aluminum head.

A ZL-1 in a Vette would be really cool due to the fact that you not only have the best chassis platform; but you also have the best exhaust manifolds compared to the Camaro ZL-1's.
Click to expand...


Looks like there might be a L-88 cam on ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-b...3370829QQsspagenameZRSSQ3aBQ3aSRCHQ3aUSQ3a101
 
DJ Dep said:
Mr.L-88 said:
A ZL-1 in a Vette would be really cool due to the fact that you not only have the best chassis platform; but you also have the best exhaust manifolds compared to the Camaro ZL-1's.
Click to expand...

Maybe for that alleged Pure Stock class. But for REAL drag racing, the solid rear axle has it all over the Corvette/Corvair IRS. Screw the stock exhaust manifolds. Rip them off and put headers on them. That whole Pure Stock class is a made up syle of racing to make certain car owners feel good. If the L-88 Corvette was so spectacular for drag racing, it would BE drag racing in NHRA stock class. World record for A/SA is a Ford Fairlane. Top A/S stick is a 1968 Camaro.
Click to expand...

Someone muat have already told Joe Fasano, Steve Calabro, and Super Chevy magazine about this becuase last month they did an article on the L-88engine used in Fasano's 69 Vette. As they put it "We take a look at what goes into building L88 power for the fastest NHRA Stock Eliminator hot rod on the planet. The last photo shows Steve Ficacci's 68 Camaro racing the Fasano/Calabro Vette. The caption states that the Vette is the quickest car to ever run in NHRA Stock Eliminator with a best pass of 9.747 at 136.91mph. Now if you are Warren Johnson this might not be "spectacular"; but if you are in the same class as this L-88 Vette you might have different thoughts.

The car runs in the re-introduced class called AA/Stock Eliminator. The NHRA hp to weight factor that is applied to the L-88 in A/Stock would require the car to weigh much more than the highest weight of any factory shipped Corvette. The AA class is intended for the heavy hitters like the Hemi Dart, ZL-1 Camaro, and L-88 Vette. This might be just be anouther class to make certain car owners feel good; but those certain car owners are also the owners of the most wicked factory muscle from the muscle car era.
 
Mr.L-88 said:
Someone muat have already told Joe Fasano, Steve Calabro, and Super Chevy magazine about this becuase last month they did an article on the L-88engine used in Fasano's 69 Vette. As they put it "We take a look at what goes into building L88 power for the fastest NHRA Stock Eliminator hot rod on the planet. The last photo shows Steve Ficacci's 68 Camaro racing the Fasano/Calabro Vette. The caption states that the Vette is the quickest car to ever run in NHRA Stock Eliminator with a best pass of 9.747 at 136.91mph. Now if you are Warren Johnson this might not be "spectacular"; but if you are in the same class as this L-88 Vette you might have different thoughts.

The car runs in the re-introduced class called AA/Stock Eliminator. The NHRA hp to weight factor that is applied to the L-88 in A/Stock would require the car to weigh much more than the highest weight of any factory shipped Corvette. The AA class is intended for the heavy hitters like the Hemi Dart, ZL-1 Camaro, and L-88 Vette. This might be just be anouther class to make certain car owners feel good; but those certain car owners are also the owners of the most wicked factory muscle from the muscle car era.
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It does feel good when you are a winner! :1st::lol: Solid axles are just for people that don't know how to properly set up an IRS.:stirpot:
 
It does feel good when you are a winner! :1st::lol: Solid axles are just for people that don't know how to properly set up an IRS.:stirpot:[/QUOTE]

I will forward this to John Force, and see how he feels about that.:nuts:
 
Yeah, looks like he has his suspension sorted out.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIMmCn0VMjo"]John Force Crashes at Dallas[/ame]


force_john_1.jpg


:crap:
 
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