Muslim woman poops in a Dutch supermarket

[damoroso]

I dunno, somehow America went in and did our damnedest to help the rest of the world, and somehow we are supposed to be the BAD guys???

I do respect you beliefs mr Vette, but you got to be f***ing kidding me on this one.
USA ain't snow white when it comes to foreign policies.
Ask palestinian how they feel about the billion USA pour every year so Israel can keep on running the world biggest concentration camp we call the Gaza strip.
Ask nicaraguans how they feel about the CIA involvement with the contras spreading terror in their country.
Ask Iranian AND irakis how they feel about USA selling weapon and intelligence to both country so the war they fought would never comes to an end.
Ask irakis how they feel about being invaded for alleged connection with terrorist and possession of WMD, when both turned to be big lies.
Ask Afghan how they feel about CIA once again arming and training taliban, which a the time was very convenient "enemies of my enemy".
I could go on.

It's realpolitik, and has nothing to do with humanism.
Like any other powerful enough country, USA first serve its own interest.
I'm not happy with people celebrating 9/11 as a blow back for USA, but I'm not surprised either.

I could say equivalent thing about my home country France, and wouldn't be surprised that in some country in Africa or Middle East we're hated to the core. You're always someone else bad guys.

Umm, can you name one, just one country that has done more in anyway to fight for others without taking any land or treasure from the place we were fighting for? Think of where the world would be without the US. You can start with WWll if you like. BTW, I have asked the Iraqis how they felt about us being there (I volunteered to go there to help restart their manufacturing infrastructure) and they were absolutely relieved to have Sadam gone. If you'd have heard the personal stories and seen the evidence I did, you'd have a much better understanding of what they were facing instead of the liberal taking points the "news agencies" put out. They're still being pulled in several directions however because information doesn't travel well there and the illiteracy rate is extremely high. WMD? Yeah, well EVERY intelligence agency in the WORLD said they had them, or most likely had them AND you add to that the uncooperative shell game Sadam was playing with the UN Weapons inspectors, plus knowing he was sympathetic towards those who would do us serious harm if they could and it's a decision I'm glad I didn't have to make. Because frankly, I probably wouldn't have given Iraq and much time as President Bush did to prepare. If you don't think they had enough time to move any material out of that country before the invasion, you're sadly mistaken. I can tell you this. The news reports you read and watch are not all inclusive.

Yep, we've had our share of issues and mistakes, but seriously I think we've done our share of good around the world too. You know we haven't always been snow white, but at least we're out there, not on the side lines. As an example, I don't see anyone else even making a gesture of working on the Palestinian Israeli issue.

And if you want to start comparing actual dollars of aid (forget about the per capita BS, because if you include private donations, once again, Americans top the list) then I think you'll find once again, we fund more than anyone else in the world. The UN? Even though it's a farcical organization we fund that despot filled corrupt group more than any one else too. I could go on and on as well.

Sorry, really pisses me off when people take pot shots and my country. Perhaps we should just take care of our own and tell everyone else to piss off.

 

[big2bird]

It's realpolitik, and has nothing to do with humanism.
Like any other powerfull enough country, USA first serve its own interest.

There are American soldiers buried all over France, and it has nothing to do with our Escargo shortage.
Without us, there is a good chance your home country would speak German.

 

[68L71]

It's realpolitik, and has nothing to do with humanism.
Like any other powerfull enough country, USA first serve its own interest.

There are American soldiers buried all over France, and it has nothing to do with our Escargo shortage.
Without us, there is a good chance your home country would speak German.

Here, here!

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Yes, and the sad part is, we were saved only to be overwhelmed by rag heads 65 years later. Soon all of us will either conform or die!

 

[68L71]

Yes, and the sad part is, we were saved only to be overwhelmed by rag heads 65 years later. Soon all of us will either conform or die!

Yes that is sad and who will save us all?

 

[denpo]

It's realpolitik, and has nothing to do with humanism.
Like any other powerfull enough country, USA first serve its own interest.

There are American soldiers buried all over France, and it has nothing to do with our Escargo shortage.
Without us, there is a good chance your home country would speak German.

Come on, It took your country Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor to realized you had to step into the conflict. Before that USA help was remote.
USA didn't fight in Europe to free us from nazis, they did because they realized it would eventually reach they own ass.
I've met WWII veterans, and I know they did fight for a good cause in their heart, but on the goverment level it was just necessity.

And if by the way someone comes with the Marshall Plan, I'd reply it's just because you just didn't want USSR to grab the whole continent.

And no, I won't bring Lafayette, politic and romantism just don't do a good mix for me.
And don't forget, if American stocks didn't go kaboom in 1929, most of this would have never happen.

*And yet another gallon of gas in the fire*:hissyfit:

 

[damoroso]

Yes, and the sad part is, we were saved only to be overwhelmed by rag heads 65 years later. Soon all of us will either conform or die!

Yeah, well, I'm not gonna conform. So, when it comes to Islam....TFB, not gonna happen. Your either part of the solution, or part of the problem. Choice is yours folks.

 

[denpo]

As an example, I don't see anyone else even making a gesture of working on the Palestinian Israeli issue.

That's because you're not informed enough. EU have been working on this issue for decades, but nothing will happens before USA put condition to all the money given.
Approx 5$ billions/year http://wrmea.org/component/content/...rect-us-aid-to-israel-almost-114-billion.html
The fact is you're paying the for the very conflict politics pretend to prevent.

 

[big2bird]

It's realpolitik, and has nothing to do with humanism.
Like any other powerfull enough country, USA first serve its own interest.

There are American soldiers buried all over France, and it has nothing to do with our Escargo shortage.
Without us, there is a good chance your home country would speak German.

Come on, It took your country Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor to realized you had to step into the conflict. Before that USA help was remote.
USA didn't fight in Europe to free us from nazis, they did because they realized it would eventually reach they own ass.
I've met WWII veterans, and I know they did fight for a good cause in their heart, but on the goverment level it was just necessity.

And if by the way someone comes with the Marshall Plan, I'd reply it's just because you just didn't want USSR to grab the whole continent.

And no, I won't bring Lafayette, politic and romantism just don't do a good mix for me.
And don't forget, if American stocks didn't go kaboom in 1929, most of this would have never happen.

*And yet another gallon of gas in the fire*:hissyfit:

This is so inaccurate, I don't know where to begin.

 

[denpo]

It's realpolitik, and has nothing to do with humanism.
Like any other powerfull enough country, USA first serve its own interest.

There are American soldiers buried all over France, and it has nothing to do with our Escargo shortage.
Without us, there is a good chance your home country would speak German.

Come on, It took your country Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor to realized you had to step into the conflict. Before that USA help was remote.
USA didn't fight in Europe to free us from nazis, they did because they realized it would eventually reach they own ass.
I've met WWII veterans, and I know they did fight for a good cause in their heart, but on the goverment level it was just necessity.

And if by the way someone comes with the Marshall Plan, I'd reply it's just because you just didn't want USSR to grab the whole continent.

And no, I won't bring Lafayette, politic and romantism just don't do a good mix for me.
And don't forget, if American stocks didn't go kaboom in 1929, most of this would have never happen.

*And yet another gallon of gas in the fire*:hissyfit:

This is so inaccurate, I don't know where to begin.

December 7, 1941 :Japan attack USA
December 8, 1941 :US Congress approves entry into war
Am I making this up?

 

[damoroso]

It's realpolitik, and has nothing to do with humanism.
Like any other powerfull enough country, USA first serve its own interest.

There are American soldiers buried all over France, and it has nothing to do with our Escargo shortage.
Without us, there is a good chance your home country would speak German.

Come on, It took your country Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor to realized you had to step into the conflict. Before that USA help was remote.
USA didn't fight in Europe to free us from nazis, they did because they realized it would eventually reach they own ass.
I've met WWII veterans, and I know they did fight for a good cause in their heart, but on the goverment level it was just necessity.

And if by the way someone comes with the Marshall Plan, I'd reply it's just because you just didn't want USSR to grab the whole continent.

And no, I won't bring Lafayette, politic and romantism just don't do a good mix for me.
And don't forget, if American stocks didn't go kaboom in 1929, most of this would have never happen.

*And yet another gallon of gas in the fire*:hissyfit:

Talk about delusional. For starters, your reference is an average for all funding since 1949 (remind me, who made Israel??). That's a long time. We're actually at about 2.5 billion a year to Israel and 1.7 for Egypt in 2008 and, for your information, the US gave the Palestinians $122,000,000 in aid in 2008. Remember, these folks voted in HAMAS as leadership, and the US (as well as others) recognizes Hamas as a terrorist organization, so I wouldn't expect the US to support them. I don't necessarily agree with everything Israel does (the settlements for example), and I doubt anyone here in America does, but I will tell you this. We can rely on them if we need them. They won't tell us we can't fly over their air space if we need to. Remember when France did that? How much aid has Europe or the Arab countries for that matter given the Palestinians? When did European leadership get involved with the peace effort, how'd that work out? Oh...I forgot...it's our fault no one can broker a piece deal with people who violate every single provision of every single effort ever agreed to.

In 2007, private giving of foreign aid from the US was $93,200,000,000. That's from private groups and citizens. Show me who gave more. Oh, and private lending and investment, another $69,200,000,000. I don't have the figures from 2009 handy but from the trend over the last 10 yrs, it should be about 15%-20% higher than 2007.

Japan and Pearl Harbor, okay. Remember sir, most of Europe didn't want a conflict, it was the majority of Europeans who didn't want to stop Germany during her build up of military forces up to and including the invasion of Poland, so save the sanctimonious bullshit. The vast majority of Europe just wanted to burry their heads in the sand while Germany was violating every section of the WW1 treaties. Much like with Iraq and now Iran. Nice. That's right, the US will handle it, and when they don't do it to our liking, we'll just talk about how evil and misguided they are, after all, it won't be Europe's fault. After all, Europe then only has risk if the US doesn't do anything, and that's not likely.

The Marshall plan? Yeah, I'll go there. It was put in place primarily to keep peace and order in the streets (a serious mistake we made in Iraq, we should have used marshal law there at first) and yeah, to make sure you folks weren't eating Borsch for the rest of your lives, so again, you're welcome. Oh by the way, you can have back all the land we took that we didn't want Russia to have….oh wait, that's right, we DIDN'T TAKE ANY. Except for those small plots called graves, but I guess for some that qualifies as colonialism.

Your right, we didn't want to get involved in WWll to begin with. I love it when other scream about the US being in everyone else business, but when you want us to spend blood and treasure to pull your sorry asses outta trouble that's okay, but when we believe it's in our national interest, we're misguided and wrong?

Bottom line is we've made mistakes before and we'll make them again, but, we've freed and provided aid to more people than anyone else on the planet, and while it's easy to stand on the side lines and throw stones, or Monday morning quarter back, it's far harder to actually try to make a difference in the world than it is to just talk about it, and point out how others don't do it like you think they should.

 

[mrvette]

It's realpolitik, and has nothing to do with humanism.
Like any other powerfull enough country, USA first serve its own interest.

There are American soldiers buried all over France, and it has nothing to do with our Escargo shortage.
Without us, there is a good chance your home country would speak German.

Come on, It took your country Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor to realized you had to step into the conflict. Before that USA help was remote.
USA didn't fight in Europe to free us from nazis, they did because they realized it would eventually reach they own ass.
I've met WWII veterans, and I know they did fight for a good cause in their heart, but on the goverment level it was just necessity.

And if by the way someone comes with the Marshall Plan, I'd reply it's just because you just didn't want USSR to grab the whole continent.

And no, I won't bring Lafayette, politic and romantism just don't do a good mix for me.
And don't forget, if American stocks didn't go kaboom in 1929, most of this would have never happen.

*And yet another gallon of gas in the fire*:hissyfit:

Talk about delusional. For starters, your reference is an average for all funding since 1949 (remind me, who made Israel??). That's a long time. We're actually at about 2.5 billion a year to Israel and 1.7 for Egypt in 2008 and, for your information, the US gave the Palestinians $122,000,000 in aid in 2008. Remember, these folks voted in HAMAS as leadership, and the US (as well as others) recognizes Hamas as a terrorist organization, so I wouldn't expect the US to support them. I don't necessarily agree with everything Israel does (the settlements for example), and I doubt anyone here in America does, but I will tell you this. We can rely on them if we need them. They won't tell us we can't fly over their air space if we need to. Remember when France did that? How much aid has Europe or the Arab countries for that matter given the Palestinians? When did European leadership get involved with the peace effort, how'd that work out? Oh...I forgot...it's our fault no one can broker a piece deal with people who violate every single provision of every single effort ever agreed to.

In 2007, private giving of foreign aid from the US was $93,200,000,000. That's from private groups and citizens. Show me who gave more. Oh, and private lending and investment, another $69,200,000,000. I don't have the figures from 2009 handy but from the trend over the last 10 yrs, it should be about 15%-20% higher than 2007.

Japan and Pearl Harbor, okay. Remember sir, most of Europe didn't want a conflict, it was the majority of Europeans who didn't want to stop Germany during her build up of military forces up to and including the invasion of Poland, so save the sanctimonious bullshit. The vast majority of Europe just wanted to burry their heads in the sand while Germany was violating every section of the WW1 treaties. Much like with Iraq and now Iran. Nice. That's right, the US will handle it, and when they don't do it to our liking, we'll just talk about how evil and misguided they are, after all, it won't be Europe's fault. After all, Europe then only has risk if the US doesn't do anything, and that's not likely.

The Marshall plan? Yeah, I'll go there. It was put in place primarily to keep peace and order in the streets (a serious mistake we made in Iraq, we should have used marshal law there at first) and yeah, to make sure you folks weren't eating Borsch for the rest of your lives, so again, you're welcome. Oh by the way, you can have back all the land we took that we didn't want Russia to have….oh wait, that's right, we DIDN'T TAKE ANY. Except for those small plots called graves, but I guess for some that qualifies as colonialism.

Your right, we didn't want to get involved in WWll to begin with. I love it when other scream about the US being in everyone else business, but when you want us to spend blood and treasure to pull your sorry asses outta trouble that's okay, but when we believe it's in our national interest, we're misguided and wrong?

Bottom line is we've made mistakes before and we'll make them again, but, we've freed and provided aid to more people than anyone else on the planet, and while it's easy to stand on the side lines and throw stones, or Monday morning quarter back, it's far harder to actually try to make a difference in the world than it is to just talk about it, and point out how others don't do it like you think they should.

I totally agree......but you don't go far enough......:flash:

 

[denpo]

Remember sir, most of Europe didn't want a conflict, it was the majority of Europeans who didn't want to stop Germany during her build up of military forces up to and including the invasion of Poland, so save the sanctimonious bullshit. The vast majority of Europe just wanted to burry their heads in the sand while Germany was violating every section of the WW1 treaties.

Here's something I can't agree more with you.
In fact they not only let Hitler do what he wanted, they actively helped him.
Fact is French army's commandment actually surrendered to the German forces and did let them invade the country. Fascist was a worldwide disease at that time. No country were spared.

 

[big2bird]

It's realpolitik, and has nothing to do with humanism.
Like any other powerfull enough country, USA first serve its own interest.

There are American soldiers buried all over France, and it has nothing to do with our Escargo shortage.
Without us, there is a good chance your home country would speak German.

Come on, It took your country Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor to realized you had to step into the conflict. Before that USA help was remote.
USA didn't fight in Europe to free us from nazis, they did because they realized it would eventually reach they own ass.
I've met WWII veterans, and I know they did fight for a good cause in their heart, but on the goverment level it was just necessity.

And if by the way someone comes with the Marshall Plan, I'd reply it's just because you just didn't want USSR to grab the whole continent.

And no, I won't bring Lafayette, politic and romantism just don't do a good mix for me.
And don't forget, if American stocks didn't go kaboom in 1929, most of this would have never happen.

*And yet another gallon of gas in the fire*:hissyfit:

This is so inaccurate, I don't know where to begin.

December 7, 1941 :Japan attack USA
December 8, 1941 :US Congress approves entry into war
Am I making this up?

Nope. But there is MORE to it than that. The US was shipping arms, shops, and money to England LONG before Pearl Harbor. We were also building armament and training troops. Radar was invented,installed, and testing when the Japs bombed. Roosevelt knew that congress would not fully approve untill we were attacked.

Viet Nam was another mess we inherited from the French.

I am begenning to think France wuld make a nice Palestenian nation. The muslims MUST know there isn't a loaded rifle in France anywhere, and no shortage of white flags.

 

[big_G]

Since France (and probably England) will soon be a majority Muslim nation, we don't need to worry about the French ever surrendering again. We will just have another Muslim country that wants us dead.

 

[denpo]

There are American soldiers buried all over France, and it has nothing to do with our Escargo shortage.
Without us, there is a good chance your home country would speak German.

Come on, It took your country Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor to realized you had to step into the conflict. Before that USA help was remote.
USA didn't fight in Europe to free us from nazis, they did because they realized it would eventually reach they own ass.
I've met WWII veterans, and I know they did fight for a good cause in their heart, but on the goverment level it was just necessity.

And if by the way someone comes with the Marshall Plan, I'd reply it's just because you just didn't want USSR to grab the whole continent.

And no, I won't bring Lafayette, politic and romantism just don't do a good mix for me.
And don't forget, if American stocks didn't go kaboom in 1929, most of this would have never happen.

*And yet another gallon of gas in the fire*:hissyfit:

This is so inaccurate, I don't know where to begin.

December 7, 1941 :Japan attack USA
December 8, 1941 :US Congress approves entry into war
Am I making this up?

Nope. But there is MORE to it than that. The US was shipping arms, shops, and money to England LONG before Pearl Harbor. We were also building armament and training troops. Radar was invented,installed, and testing when the Japs bombed. Roosevelt knew that congress would not fully approve untill we were attacked.

Viet Nam was another mess we inherited from the French.

I am begenning to think France wuld make a nice Palestenian nation. The muslims MUST know there isn't a loaded rifle in France anywhere, and no shortage of white flags.

Allright big2bird, I do agree on both of you points. I guess I got caught at my own tickling game, you guy take things quiet seriously. I usually don't get into such heated debate, I often find them sterile. But when I read some of you, guy, I just .... can't....help
I'm from a country where the rightmost political figure (I exclude National Front) looks like a commie compared to of of your Dem, a country where sporting the national flag is reserved to the jerks, the army and the townhall, a country where nationalism is often seen as some sort of disease, source of misery for past centuries.
I even dated for years a girl whose parent where pure communists, cool guys, really.
So when I read you guys , I find you so shockingly.... conservative? I guess that's the word, you tell me. So gaps may never closed. Culture shock I guess.

Never mind, I got my lesson, won't post again on off-topic, a way too soapy slope for me. And don't see why I'd be defending a country I left, maybe for good, at least for a very long time.
Gentlemen, see you on the on-topic side of the forum :hi:

 

[damoroso]

Denpo,

I hope you do post in Off Topic again. I can't speak for the others, but as for me, I welcome debate. It's what keeps us honest and helps prevent revisionist history. What I think you see here is what really sets the US apart from all other nations. What keeps the French together, or the Italians or Germans? Typically their heritage, they're French or Italian or German. For us it's an ideology. We believe in freedom and liberty, really. Things like communism and socialism fly in the face of that, and while there are those in our country who may think that may be a good way to go, I'd have to say the majority do not. It seems if all things are equal all the time (the goal of socialism or communism) then there is no incentive. To believe otherwise is to deny the human spirit. We all want to do better, but if working harder, and trying harder while someone next to you doesn't have to do a thing to end up in the same place, well, eventually, no one tries harder. It's like Margaret Thatcher said "Socialism is fine until you run out of other peoples money".

So we'll keep plugging along trying to do what's right and working hard. Once again the US is waking up, this time politically, and I think this wake up call will last for a while.


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote!" Ben Franklin