Caliper "lip seals"?

BBShark said:
When people refer to "lip seals' for a C3 caliper, are they talking about these:

http://catalog.precisionassoc.com/product/precision-associates-inc-x-ring/x-rings?
Click to expand...

NO, the 'lip seals' refer to the same type deal as say the front oil seal on a SBC crankshaft.....lip to the pressure/seal side only it slides in the bore, with the pistons, and obviously don't rotate....

those seals shown above, I have never seen before...look interesting, so I want to see comments from smart folks about them in a set of O ring pistons I have in the car now....

I would think they be better design....:fishing::thumbs:
 
I'm asking the question because those quad or x rings are very common in calipers but they are technically o-rings. I saw some information that said these were the seals used by the factory and were mistakenly called lip seals (which are something else entirely).

So the o-rings that everyone uses are the traditional o-rings?
 
OK. So the original (factory) seal was a lip seal. Aftermarket companies supply traditional o-ring seals (round cross section).

Does anyone make the x or quad seal for calipers? I am kind of suprised. I thought they were the more common type of seal used in calipers.
 
Garys 68 said:
Why bother, the simple O ring conversions seem to work flawlessly.
Click to expand...

Correct, but I don't think I ever seen that square looking seal so was wondering if it's any better, little to be gained far as I can tell....

:quote:
 
Most calipers use square seals, most caliper also use a polished piston and a seal that sits in the bore, not the piston. A much better design. Commonly those seals are all square. The only caliper i know of and have ever taken apart that is different is the corvette junk.
 
Twin_Turbo said:
Most calipers use square seals, most caliper also use a polished piston and a seal that sits in the bore, not the piston. A much better design. Commonly those seals are all square. The only caliper i know of and have ever taken apart that is different is the corvette junk.
Click to expand...

Been decades since I rebuilt any other calipers too, I just exchange them, mostly for less than 30 bux each...thankfully my '72 had stainless calipers on it, so I was spared the financial agony....

:amazed:
 
redvetracr said:
Garys 68 said:
Why bother, the simple O ring conversions seem to work flawlessly.
Click to expand...


they lasted two practice sessions on my car....I went back to my trusty J-56 pistons with lip seals.
Click to expand...

Any clue s to the nature of the failure?? heat/melt the Orings?

Some years ago I had the left front hose clog up and so burnt up the whole mess, but the caliper never leaked, it bled out a healthy squirt when bleeder was turned...the rotor was all blue and totally gone far as I was concerned.... :cussing:
 
Twin_Turbo said:
Most calipers use square seals, most caliper also use a polished piston and a seal that sits in the bore, not the piston. A much better design. Commonly those seals are all square. The only caliper i know of and have ever taken apart that is different is the corvette junk.
Click to expand...

Thats my understanding also. I just can't figure out why people use o-rings in Corvette calipers instead of quad rings. Also, an o-ring is less compliant than a quad ring which is less compliant than a lip seal.

I've never taken a Corvette caliper apart, maybe I am missing something. Couldn't new sleeves be made that retained the seal (instead of the piston retaining the seal)?
 
redvetracr said:
Garys 68 said:
Why bother, the simple O ring conversions seem to work flawlessly.
Click to expand...


they lasted two practice sessions on my car....I went back to my trusty J-56 pistons with lip seals.
Click to expand...

If you compare apples to apples, the o-ring pistons would need to have insulators as well.

O-rings with insulators will out perform stock seals with insulators.

A square cut seal or quad seal would out perform an o-ring.
 
BBShark said:
Twin_Turbo said:
Most calipers use square seals, most caliper also use a polished piston and a seal that sits in the bore, not the piston. A much better design. Commonly those seals are all square. The only caliper i know of and have ever taken apart that is different is the corvette junk.
Click to expand...

Thats my understanding also. I just can't figure out why people use o-rings in Corvette calipers instead of quad rings. Also, an o-ring is less compliant than a quad ring which is less compliant than a lip seal.

I've never taken a Corvette caliper apart, maybe I am missing something. Couldn't new sleeves be made that retained the seal (instead of the piston retaining the seal)?
Click to expand...

I remember discussing that with howard and I think he knew someone that actually did it. Bore out the caliper halves and insert sleeves wutg a groove for a square o ring, then machine up some nice stainless hollow pistons, polish them and all your troubles are over.

Then again, you can also buy it...it's called a wilwood D8 caliper :)
 
turtlevette said:
redvetracr said:
Garys 68 said:
Why bother, the simple O ring conversions seem to work flawlessly.
Click to expand...


they lasted two practice sessions on my car....I went back to my trusty J-56 pistons with lip seals.
Click to expand...

If you compare apples to apples, the o-ring pistons would need to have insulators as well.

O-rings with insulators will out perform stock seals with insulators.

A square cut seal or quad seal would out perform an o-ring.
Click to expand...


those lip seals seal better under pressure than an o ring. the problem is the piston pumping and letting air in.
 
hmmm, I just got tired of fluid dripping down my tires every time I took the car out of winter storage. Haven't touched them since the O ring conversion.
 
turtlevette said:
redvetracr said:
Garys 68 said:
Why bother, the simple O ring conversions seem to work flawlessly.
Click to expand...


they lasted two practice sessions on my car....I went back to my trusty J-56 pistons with lip seals.
Click to expand...

If you compare apples to apples, the o-ring pistons would need to have insulators as well.

O-rings with insulators will out perform stock seals with insulators.

A square cut seal or quad seal would out perform an o-ring.
Click to expand...


no, the problem was not heat. the problem with the o-ring is it makes a poor seal compared to a lip seal and the insulator had nothing to do with it, it was two pumps at every corner starting with the first corner.
 
Twin_Turbo said:
I remember discussing that with howard and I think he knew someone that actually did it. Bore out the caliper halves and insert sleeves wutg a groove for a square o ring, then machine up some nice stainless hollow pistons, polish them and all your troubles are over.
Click to expand...


It was not my plan but the plan was to furnace brace a machined piece of tubing with a groove cut in it for a square cut o-ring into a factory caliper, no one was willing to step-up so it never happened.
 
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$100 for the Wilwood calipers is a lot of money BUT..... they seem to be far superior and cast aluminum (not cast iron) .... machining the stock calipers and making custom pistons is probably more expensive.
 
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