Gear Whine

Hey guys I just installed a rebuilt power steering pump today. Keep in mind I also loosened my altenator for access.

I installed the pump, checked all the connections, pulled the pump tight with the belt, but the "top" of the belt can move about 1/2" up and down in the center. I did the same for the altenator. I then filled the pump with fluid and did the following bleeding sequence:

-After filling, I ran the engine for 2 seconds, then killed it and checked the level.

-I then worked the wheels lock to lock, one cycle, engine running, while the car was on jack stands, killed the engine, then checked the level.

-Then I let her run for while (~5 minutes) then moved the wheels lock to lock a few times, killed the engine, checked the level.

-Took the car off the jack stands, ran the car, worked the wheels lock to lock on concrete, killed the engine, checked the level.

As a Final check, I took her for a spin, working the wheels and what not. However, I noticed above 2500rpm that I had a very noticeable new gear whine. I brought her home and checked the level and she was fine.
What could this be? Is this normal? Are belts too tight or is my bleed sequence wrong? Let me know what you guys think.

Is the fluid aerated?

I'm assuming it would then be foamy right? I some bubbles, but not many.

Last couple of pumps I installed didn't fully bleed until after sitting overnight. I let it sit with the wheel turned full left....trick from a friend.

Check it in the morning, if the pill don't work, call me....

happens most every time from having p/s lines loose, air in the oil....

:crutches:

Yup. I set her up for over night with the wheel all the way to the left. I'll let you know what I find when I can check her again. Thanks guys.

I checked the level a few minutes ago. Looks like it went down, but I think it could be the fluid being cold. I can't take it out though since I have to go to a bbq and its going to rain.

If the level is too high will that screw with the pump? I think mine is a little too high, but I wasn't too worried.

One time I overfilled, the excess fluid came out the top of the cap.








I borrowed the below from a post that Jim Shea did.

A little Power Steering Cap 101 lesson.

The power steering pump cap is a bit more sophisticated than just a screw on cap with a gasket and a stick attached. It has to perform the following functions: Prevent fluid from splashing out while driving, provide a pressure relief function to prevent overpressure in the reservoir, provide a mechanical latch to the reservoir, provide a convenient method of measuring the fluid level both hot and cold, along with being easily accessable (whoops!)

The cap is actually assembled from several parts. The stick portion is separate from the upper cap part. Buried inside the cap and between the two parts is a rubber valve that allows air to escape from the reservoir when the system gets hot, fluid expands, and there is a small pressure buildup (10 psi) in the reservoir. However, this valve is clever in that it lets air back into the reservoir when the system fluid temperature cools down. So despite the fact that the pump can develop 1200 psi fluid pressure, that pressure never gets to the reservoir. The reservoir only sees a pressure build up as a result of fluid expansion due to temperature.

This is one good reason to never overfill your steering system. You need an air volume in the pump reservoir to allow for expansion of the fluid due to elevated temperatures.

JIM, from say 0f to say 200f what would be the ratio of volume expansion of the fluid??? 10% or so???:beer:

Well, something bad happened. I took the car out for a long cruise. Still made the sound but wasn't getting any worse. Well, literally in front of my house the pump starts groaning loadly when we returned. I back her into the driveway into her spot, throw the cover on extremely pissed and not sure what the hell was going on. Well, after I calm down for a minute I tell my girlfriend that I'm going to look under the car and see what could be the issue (couldn't see when I pulled in because it was dark). She then informs me that I have a big leak. What?? Why didn't she say anything sooner?? She thought I saw it when I got out of the car. So I go out with the flashlight and the blood is everywhere. I can see power steering fluid in the street, in the driveway, and under the car. The underside of the car has quite a bit all the way back to the crossmember right before the rear wheels! I couldn't find the source, but I think its my pressure hose running from the pump to the power valve is the cultprit. It was dripping and the pump/hose flare connection leaked a little before, but I tightened it when I was first bleeding the system and haven't seen anything since. I just hope I didn't blow the pump:hissyfit: I'll be changing the hose soon it looks like.

However, I'm not convinced that was the original problem of the whining. I really need this car working wednesday too and it's supposed to rain until then...:cussing:

I would be concerned that you have the right pump/pressure relief valve. If you have the 1,200 PSI pump, and not the required 700 PSI pump, you could blow all the hoses/seals like you did.

Well I'll have to look into that! that may explain whine if it was fighting itself. Just to be clear, the pressure line didn't rupture. It looks to be comming out of the flare connection. I'm thinking the O-ring could be old/damaged or maybe some dirt on the sealing surface.

I'll be running to my parts outfit today where I bought the pump for the pressure hose. I'll ask them about the pump. Is there any way to tell the difference between the higher pressure and the required pressure pump?

I went ot my parts outfit and they feel rather confident that it's the right pump. I replaced the line and worked the steering with the engine off to work it in. I then ran the car and worked the wheel some more. I found no leaks and left her on the jack stands with the wheels to the left lock. Should I drop her down to the gorund for better bleeding?

As long as it's not leaking, the only way to tell if it's fixed is on the ground driving it. I say put er down and go for a spin.

Well i drove her last night and she developed a small leak around the power valve. I'm not sure of the source yet, but it's a small drip. I had a small leak here and there in the system before, but I'm not sure if the power valve was a source or not (the pump was at least one). I hope I didn't ruin the hose my over tightening the flare nut...
Also, the pump didn't whine until the fluid was warmed up. I thought maybe I have too much and so I sucked some out, but it didn't change the whine.

So anyone convert power steering to manual?:lol:

The whine could be several things.

To test just the pump, remove the pressure line from the steering valve end, also remove the return line at the valve, connect the two together with a short piece of 3/8" hose (tranny or gas) and good worm clamps. Check the both hoses for internal obstructions/deterioration.
Fill the pump and run at idle, you won't build very much pressure (probably >25psi). See if it starts to whine when hot.

Then while at idle, take any typre of clamp etc and slowly start clamping the real pressure hose shut. It should start to squeal only when almost completely shut off (over relief).

The difference in pressure between a full size (1200psi) and the corvette (900psi) should not make the system whine at all.

I'll check the pump like you outlined. If the pump still whines, I'll bring it back and get another rebuilt pump. I'll also double check the belt tension. My belt seems to have some "wobble" too it. i'm thinking that may add to the problem.

As a general update, I took the car for another cruise and I'm still getting a slight leak around the power valve. Makes me nervous taking it out now. I'm paranoid the lines going to blow out of the fitting just like the last one. I may replace the hose again out of fear I stripped some of the threads.

I'm also looking into the Boregon integral power steering box conversion. My power valve and ram don't look all that great and I "might as well" take care of that issue soon.

Look closely at your control valve. I have heard of one of the hose bosses being cracked from too much torque on the nut. If the boss is cracked where the return line connects (the hose going right back to the spout on the pump reservoir) then you could be sucking air into the system whenever the engine is running. You could also be leaking fluid as well. It is quite important that you determine where your leak is originating. It could be the root cause of all of your problems.

Sorry that I didn't answer sooner but I thought that "gear whine" was relating to transmission or rear end gears.
Jim

Yeah I realize now the name of the thread is kind of a fail. When I first posted I had in mind that it may not be my pump, but maybe my alternator since I loosened and reset the belt.

I think you may be onto something. I wiped off the control valve before I took it for a test drive to determine if it was a leak or residual fluid dripping off. When I returned, I noticed a little bit dripping and I believe some spray was on the flare nut. It looked like a spray, but couldn't be too sure. My areas been hit with a lot of rain so until that ceases a bit I can't do much. I'll definitely check to see if the boss is cracked.

However, I'm not overly concerned with the pump whine. From the research I've done, it seems to be somewhat normal. Now I'm just really concerned about this leak. I'm really nervous that it may blow out. I couldn't really determine where the connection blew out so I'm not sure if I still have a ticking bomb or not.

Well, I've taken the car out a number of times since my last post and besides having some other issues flair up, the power steering seems fine. The Pump still whines like a Banshee but the steering seems the same. I don't seem to have a leak anymore or at least it slow enough to be a non-issue. I'll address it if it gets worse or when I decide to either refurbish the whole steering system or replace it with a Borgeson system. I would still like to know how to get the pump to shut up though... Thanks for the help guys.