Jsup
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
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Unless they decide to take bailout money.
My next car is a ford
- Thread starter Jsup
- Start date
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
I got one ea. F/GM/Ch.....
don't plan on EVER being in the car market again, not for nuttin'....
:crutches:
don't plan on EVER being in the car market again, not for nuttin'....
:crutches:
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
The UAW will be pleased.
Jsup
Well-known member
- Joined
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They can be as pleased as they want. I still resent backing their pensions, but that goes for all three.
As far as the rest of it goes, that's a deal between the Manufacturer's and the union. And as far as I'm concerned as long as I don't have to pay for it, I don't care. If Ford can offer a competitive product for a fair price and keep the unions, I don't really care. I think it's a scam, but not my problem.
Now, if that deal is putting the company out of business and I decide to point that out, that's life.
Last edited:
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
It's a LOAN. Besides, this story is old too. Eisenhower gave Studebaker contracts just to keep them afloat. Nothing new here. Iacoca got loans for Chrysler, and they paid it back EARLY.
Helping to keep The BIG 3 afloat is good for the economy, competition, and national security.
GM doesn't just build cars, it builds tanks, diesel locomotives, etc.
Jsup
Well-known member
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Do you think they will ever pay it back? Really?
TimAT
Addict, Cruise-In Bird-Run 1 Veteran
Ever hear of the PGBC? You guys are all funding MY pension plan too. When the airlines all defaulted on their pension plans, the gov forced them into the PGBC.
For the record, I'm about 1/2 off the UAW crying about thier members might have to take a pay cut. After 20+ years in the airlines and 6 or 7 PAYCUTS "+" the loss of the biggest part of my pension, I don't have a real problem with it.
For the record, I'm about 1/2 off the UAW crying about thier members might have to take a pay cut. After 20+ years in the airlines and 6 or 7 PAYCUTS "+" the loss of the biggest part of my pension, I don't have a real problem with it.
Fuelie74
Well-known member
When I toured the Vette plant in 2001 they said that it was set up to switch from building Vettes to tanks in 24hr.
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
I hope so.
My business teacher told me, "Father-son businesses and GM make money, everything in between is a struggle. If GM ever fails, were in trouble."
Looks like we are in big trouble.:sos:
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
How cool is that?
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
No one likes a paycut, but I've had my share. Construction is one big pendulum. When work is good, we gain some ground. When it's slow, we lose some. Just part of the game. All in all, I know I make more, yet have less buying power than when I started. THAT is a fact.
Jsup
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
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Do you think the government should pick and choose which businesses stay in business? What about the clerk at 7-11? Why should that person who makes $10 be paying into saving an out dated system of people making $40 an hour? Does that seem right to you? Because those people belong to a special group called a UNION and raise money for politicians en masse?
THis whole thing stinks and the loser is the taxpayers and my kids.
BangkokDean
Well-known member
I received this Email today..............I still wonder what is going on over there.
Quote.
I can't believe the feedback I have gotten on it - I have customers asking if they cansend it to everyone they know - I really just meant it to be a 2 line response, but found my spleen just flowing.Please do spread the word. Gregg`````````````````````````````````````````Abridged letter from Troy Clarke, President of General Motors -followed by a response from our son, Gregory Knox
ear Employee,Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediatesupport to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times inour nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is criticalto our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis......................As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard.Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.Troy Clarke
President
General Motors North America~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From Gregory Knox,In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark,the president of General Motors North America for me. You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germsin UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation,awaiting our new "messiah" to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away,while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream". The dream is over! The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopicallyfocuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories havebeen filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlementminded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities.and that still the masses will line up to buy our products Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I havecalled on Ford,GM ,Chrysler,TRW,Delphi,Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countlessother automotive OEM's and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest andwhat I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.Mr Clark, the president of General Motors, states: There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in themedia that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management. It is not. You're right - it's not JUST management.how about the electricians who walk around theplants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hourswhile they drag ass.so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time.for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics .forputting out too many parts on a shift.and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction,must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: over the last few years .we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors. What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. Time to pay for your sins, Detroit. I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieusurprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money".Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems, but despite what people like George Bushand Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day. and somethingelse would happen.where there had been greedy and sloppy banks new efficient oneswould pop up.that is how a free market system works.it does work.if we would let it work. But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right andthat capitalism doesn't work - that we need the government to step in and "save us".save us,hell - we're nationalizing.and unfortunately too many of this once fine nations citizensdon't even have a clue that this is what's really happening.but they sure cantell you the stats on their favorite sports teams.yeah - THAT'S important. Does it occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades now in this Country, with America labor?... How can that be??? Let's see. Fuel efficient. Listening to customers. Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul. Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr. W Edwards Deming 4 decades ago Ever increased productivity through Quality, lean and Six Sigma Plans. Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy". Efficient front and back offices. Non union environment. Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyoneanything they really don't already know in their hearts I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone tobail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into - my children do this on a weekly,if not daily basis, as I did at their age. I do for them what my parents did for me(one of their greatest gifts, by the way) - I make them stand on their own two feet andaccept the consequences of their actions and work them through. Radical concept, huh. Am I there for them in the wings? Of course - but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. Bad news people - it's coming whether we like it or not The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away" I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the vote count was tallied."we might not do it in a year.or in four." where was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for the office Stop trying to put off the inevitable . That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000. People who jump across a border really "don't deserve free health care benefits". That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year. We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from acountry that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rightsinfractions on the face of the globe. That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home. Let the market correct itself people - it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna be painfuleither way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it is a nation thatappreciates what is has.and doesn't live beyond its means.and gets back to basics. andredevelops the work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world.and probably turns back to "God". Sorry - don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news"Regardless of where you are living in America, look at your neighbors and see how many areDriving so called "foreign" made cars and trucks.
Gregory J KnoxPresidentKnox Machinery, Inc.Franklin, Ohio 45005
un quote
Quote.
I can't believe the feedback I have gotten on it - I have customers asking if they cansend it to everyone they know - I really just meant it to be a 2 line response, but found my spleen just flowing.Please do spread the word. Gregg`````````````````````````````````````````Abridged letter from Troy Clarke, President of General Motors -followed by a response from our son, Gregory Knox
ear Employee,Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediatesupport to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times inour nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is criticalto our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis......................As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard.Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.Troy ClarkePresident
General Motors North America~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From Gregory Knox,In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark,the president of General Motors North America for me. You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germsin UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation,awaiting our new "messiah" to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away,while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream". The dream is over! The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopicallyfocuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories havebeen filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlementminded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities.and that still the masses will line up to buy our products Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I havecalled on Ford,GM ,Chrysler,TRW,Delphi,Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countlessother automotive OEM's and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest andwhat I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.Mr Clark, the president of General Motors, states: There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in themedia that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management. It is not. You're right - it's not JUST management.how about the electricians who walk around theplants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hourswhile they drag ass.so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time.for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics .forputting out too many parts on a shift.and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction,must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: over the last few years .we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors. What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. Time to pay for your sins, Detroit. I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieusurprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money".Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems, but despite what people like George Bushand Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day. and somethingelse would happen.where there had been greedy and sloppy banks new efficient oneswould pop up.that is how a free market system works.it does work.if we would let it work. But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right andthat capitalism doesn't work - that we need the government to step in and "save us".save us,hell - we're nationalizing.and unfortunately too many of this once fine nations citizensdon't even have a clue that this is what's really happening.but they sure cantell you the stats on their favorite sports teams.yeah - THAT'S important. Does it occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades now in this Country, with America labor?... How can that be??? Let's see. Fuel efficient. Listening to customers. Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul. Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr. W Edwards Deming 4 decades ago Ever increased productivity through Quality, lean and Six Sigma Plans. Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy". Efficient front and back offices. Non union environment. Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyoneanything they really don't already know in their hearts I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone tobail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into - my children do this on a weekly,if not daily basis, as I did at their age. I do for them what my parents did for me(one of their greatest gifts, by the way) - I make them stand on their own two feet andaccept the consequences of their actions and work them through. Radical concept, huh. Am I there for them in the wings? Of course - but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. Bad news people - it's coming whether we like it or not The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away" I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the vote count was tallied."we might not do it in a year.or in four." where was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for the office Stop trying to put off the inevitable . That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000. People who jump across a border really "don't deserve free health care benefits". That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year. We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from acountry that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rightsinfractions on the face of the globe. That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home. Let the market correct itself people - it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna be painfuleither way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it is a nation thatappreciates what is has.and doesn't live beyond its means.and gets back to basics. andredevelops the work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world.and probably turns back to "God". Sorry - don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news"Regardless of where you are living in America, look at your neighbors and see how many areDriving so called "foreign" made cars and trucks.
Gregory J KnoxPresidentKnox Machinery, Inc.Franklin, Ohio 45005
un quote
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
Problem is, one way or another we pay, through taxes, through prices, same difference.....same for every society, question IS, can .gov be made good enough to actually DO the job at hand?? welfare in this case....it gets large enough and un responsive enough, like most socialist countries, it's a obvious failure, ....but so it seems from what I can see about 70% of the workers depend on a .gov check in one way or another anyway....
:sos:
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
In other words, only big business should donate to politicos and have their voice heard? Working stiffs should not have that right?
Jsup
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 812
Union members have a choice. Donate to politicians WE choose, or don't work.
Clear as day.
I have a number of friends that were told exactly that, how many numbers you want?
They excercised their choice to NOT have their dues go to political campaigns since they were in opposition to the people getting the money. They were told "that's fine, you don't have to work here" and they weren't given any work.
So tell me how that system represents the "little guy"...
Jsup
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
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YEah yeah yeah, and the banks were going to collapse, children would die, the earth would end.
I don't believe it. The streets of history are littered with absurd hyperbole which never manifests itself in the worst case situation.
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
I remember that class action suit. We all had to sign consent cards. Out of our 1,400 local members, I believe 10 did not sign. I am also unaware of any of them not working because of it. There would have been yet another suit by now.
I get it. YOU hate unions. I'm a little disturbed by that, but it's a free country. Buy a non-union product just because who makes it. I'm okay with that. Most people could care less.
People buy cars because of what it is, and rarely consider who assembles it. They look at appearance,cost,warranty,service,milage,etc.
If GM came out with a car that made the best millage, looked great, and was cost effective, they would still sell the crap out of it as long as financing could be found. "Build a better mousetrap."
Jsup
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 812
I remember that class action suit. We all had to sign consent cards. Out of our 1,400 local members, I believe 10 did not sign. I am also unaware of any of them not working because of it. There would have been yet another suit by now.
I get it. YOU hate unions. I'm a little disturbed by that, but it's a free country. Buy a non-union product just because who makes it. I'm okay with that. Most people could care less.
People buy cars because of what it is, and rarely consider who assembles it. They look at appearance,cost,warranty,service,milage,etc.
If GM came out with a car that made the best millage, looked great, and was cost effective, they would still sell the crap out of it as long as financing could be found. "Build a better mousetrap."
I don't hate unions. I hate that they put companies out of business. I hate that they are backed by me, the taxpayer. I hate that they force people into deals they don't want to be in.
If a union is so good, why not let people opt in or out of it and the company can pay people accordingly one rate union, one rate non union and see what happens. How about that?
Why force it down people's throat? Why be hell bent on open ballots? Intimidation.