Question for my European friends

[clutchdust]

I have a friend here who is originally from France. I like this guy, he cracks me up. Part of what makes him so entertaining is also what frustrates me to no end.
A few months ago he bought this old Chevy pick up someone else had already put a late model 454 in. He pulls it out and asks me to rebuild it. He says he wants to "go crazy" with it, can I build it. "Hell, ya" I say. Now here's the fun part. I tell him we can build a 600hp NA motor and he gets all excited. Then I tell him we need to buy forged pistons, rods and crank.
"Oh, no. I want to reuse the stock pistons, rods and crank". Keep in mind these are just the stock bits that this motor left Tonowanda with. Not only that but we had to use a ridge reamer just to get the pistons out without breaking the ring lands.
So he then asks me how much I think I can build. I tell him reusing the old bottom end and just putting a cam kit in (I'm giving him a good set of oval port heads for it) we can make around 400, for a little while, but it will also burn oil.
He's all disappointed in this and just can't understand why.
So how do I explain to my friend that you can't just slap a big, fat cam and carb on any engine and make 700hp?

 

[mrvette]

Learn the hard way, I suppose.....

but I have a funny and TRUE story, year '73 or so I had this '72 Lemans 2dr hardtop, and a '67 GTO was scrapped for some off reason, so I pulled the heads, cam, intake, and put it all in the '72 350 engine so I had the 9779068 cam and good heads, I NEVER KEPT ANY ORDER TO THE LIFTERS, I JUST FLOPPED THEM ON THE CAM,.....

Engine ran about 300 thousand miles that way......after I sold it heading into the Sha/Iran fuel crunch, bought a 33mpg machine, the Lemans was used as a race car just for grins on SCCA tracks, also as a delivery vehicle where it finally died when the oil pump ran up the surrender flag.....this was by the late 80's, I got to strip all the parts, that went into my '70 Lemans/GTO convertible I bought in '89.....:mullet:

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Tell him to buy a new crate motor..no sense in dealing with this. His lack of understanding can only lead to disappointment.

 

[clutchdust]

Tell him to buy a new crate motor..no sense in dealing with this. His lack of understanding can only lead to disappointment.

Too cheap for that.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Exactly...that's his problem. Penny wise pound fool

Cannot build hipo motor from worn out old smogger parts

 

[denpo]

Tell him to buy a new crate motor..no sense in dealing with this. His lack of understanding can only lead to disappointment.

Too cheap for that.

Told ya that already, Frenchs are damn cheap, me included.
They don't know what a credit card is and usually ever never spend more that what's in the bank account.

Make him forget the HP he theorically lose by showing him the money he actually save.
Estimate how much a proper 600hp engine would cost, and he'll realize how much a bargain his 400hp oil furnace would be.

Just show him the HP per $ of each config, he'll see the light. Otherwise tell him "tu es trop con pour comprendre, espèce d'abruti"

 

[BangkokDean]

Me thinks he will become an X friend very soon.....:clobbered:

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Lie.

re-ring it, put a really pretty radical cam in it, make him port the heads himself, put an aluminum intake on it, headers.... tell him it's at least 600 hp.

And if he ever dyno's it, send him a link to a discussion or 10 about how dynos lie.

Once he gets tired being beat by the random bicyclist, smart car, volt, prius... tell him he needs "more" torque and then build the motor he should have built the first time.

My point is this - don't kill his spark for hp, it's more addictive than crack; and it's expensive. Just like crack, you give them a sample (albeit it, a 350 hp example) of hp crack so they don't fall over at the true cost - then let nature take its course.

which leads me to my next point, never show someone richer than you about speed.... but that's another rant for another day

 

[Stroker-427]

Tell to your friend that is not alone!
A lot of guys really have no idea how the fancy magic named "engine" can make the wheel rotating only putting some gas in the thank...:bounce:

 

[JPhil]

It realy has nothing to do with his being French. He just doesn't understand what the process involves. Can you turn it around to a subject he can relate to?
I bet if you just rebuild it pretty stock with a low-end torquey cam that will make it jump quick he'll be pleased with the end result. Tell him to just drive it like this a while and take his time thinking about what he wants from it while reading up on the subject.....Right now, like any newby, he's dazzled by the stars in his eyes of big HP numbers without really understanding the overall concept of usable 'power'.

Betcha a dollar to dime that shortly after the new engine is in & running he'll be back to have you fix that weak broken tranny or rear end.....

 

[denpo]

It realy has nothing to do with his being French.

Awww, that's so unfair.
For once I could indulge myself into racial slur and broad generalization.:hissyfit::harhar:

He just doesn't understand what the process involves. Can you turn it around to a subject he can relate to?
I bet if you just rebuild it pretty stock with a low-end torquey cam that will make it jump quick he'll be pleased with the end result. Tell him to just drive it like this a while and take his time thinking about what he wants from it while reading up on the subject.....Right now, like any newby, he's dazzled by the stars in his eyes of big HP numbers without really understanding the overall concept of usable 'power'.

Betcha a dollar to dime that shortly after the new engine is in & running he'll be back to have you fix that weak broken tranny or rear end.....

I agree, unknowingly, he's probably more after big low end torque than HP.

 

[mrvette]

hehe...stick an olde tyme Pontiac 455 in there, or a 500 caddy....550 ft lbs at idle.....:beer:

 

[clutchdust]

Me thinks he will become an X friend very soon.....:clobbered:

Nope. He's a good guy and this is nothing I haven't told him before. He just doesn't want to accept it. It's not that he doesn't believe me so much as he just doesn't want it to be true.

It realy has nothing to do with his being French. He just doesn't understand what the process involves. Can you turn it around to a subject he can relate to?
I bet if you just rebuild it pretty stock with a low-end torquey cam that will make it jump quick he'll be pleased with the end result. Tell him to just drive it like this a while and take his time thinking about what he wants from it while reading up on the subject.....Right now, like any newby, he's dazzled by the stars in his eyes of big HP numbers without really understanding the overall concept of usable 'power'.

Betcha a dollar to dime that shortly after the new engine is in & running he'll be back to have you fix that weak broken tranny or rear end.....

Can't turn it around. Problem is, he already thinks he's a car guy now.
When I tell him the 454 we're going to put together (268 cam, big oval port heads and Performer intake) is going to make about 375-400hp, he's not that impressed. But you and I know the first time he really nails the throttle and wads up his driveshaft, he'll step out with a big, shit-eating grin on his face.

hehe...stick an olde tyme Pontiac 455 in there, or a 500 caddy....550 ft lbs at idle.....:beer:

The irony here is that I am building a poncho 455 for another French guy but this guy isn't afraid to spend money. He's gone with forged pistons and rods, retro roller cam, spent a buttload of money on all right parts. Hell, the only stock part of the bottom end is the stock crank, but those Pontiac cranks are so beefy I'm really not that worried. I feel pretty comfortable this engine will make 500hp on pump gas.

 

[mrvette]

Me thinks he will become an X friend very soon.....:clobbered:

Nope. He's a good guy and this is nothing I haven't told him before. He just doesn't want to accept it. It's not that he doesn't believe me so much as he just doesn't want it to be true.

It realy has nothing to do with his being French. He just doesn't understand what the process involves. Can you turn it around to a subject he can relate to?
I bet if you just rebuild it pretty stock with a low-end torquey cam that will make it jump quick he'll be pleased with the end result. Tell him to just drive it like this a while and take his time thinking about what he wants from it while reading up on the subject.....Right now, like any newby, he's dazzled by the stars in his eyes of big HP numbers without really understanding the overall concept of usable 'power'.

Betcha a dollar to dime that shortly after the new engine is in & running he'll be back to have you fix that weak broken tranny or rear end.....

Can't turn it around. Problem is, he already thinks he's a car guy now.
When I tell him the 454 we're going to put together (268 cam, big oval port heads and Performer intake) is going to make about 375-400hp, he's not that impressed. But you and I know the first time he really nails the throttle and wads up his driveshaft, he'll step out with a big, shit-eating grin on his face.

hehe...stick an olde tyme Pontiac 455 in there, or a 500 caddy....550 ft lbs at idle.....:beer:

The irony here is that I am building a poncho 455 for another French guy but this guy isn't afraid to spend money. He's gone with forged pistons and rods, retro roller cam, spent a buttload of money on all right parts. Hell, the only stock part of the bottom end is the stock crank, but those Pontiac cranks are so beefy I'm really not that worried. I feel pretty comfortable this engine will make 500hp on pump gas.

The stories I could tell you about my super reliable Pontiac engines over the years....bust the hell outta the rest of the drive train, but them engines lasted for EVER....damn cars came out sideways every time, I remember taking my kids in the back seats, g/f in front, gear, boat, etc up over a 10% grade on South Mountain just north of Fredrick Md,....4 mile pull....going in at 80 mph, and I open the Injection up....1000 CFM ....let the computer figger it out....topping 100 mph at the Appalachian trail.....time to lift....

26 gallon Caddy fuel tank....:hissyfit::crylol::nuts:

PULL, HELL YEH man.....