If it's not one thing, it's another... Need some advice.

SRountree

Well-known member
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Apr 12, 2015
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352
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Cincinnati - Middletown OH
I have a 383 stroker, original Muncie 4 speed.

I drove it around the block, no problem until I got into my driveway. I always place it in natural costing around the corner, shifted back in 1st, nothing, all gears nothing. Jacked the entire car on blocks, the drive shaft and rear end all work fine, took off the linkage to make sure the shifter wasn't the problem. Manually put in any gear, I could spin the rear tires with no problem.

It has to be something in the transmission right? I didn't hear anything break but like it just stopped working.

Any thoughts? Cost to rebuild a manual trans, or a simple bolt on swap?
 
which Muncie is it?

trying to think what would cause what you said - and all have noises associated with the failure. I'd pull the side cover and look - maybe something simple like a broken shift fork (hoping for the best for you). If not, I have a super t-10 that would bolt in place. It works fine except the center plate has a crack which leaked oil.... I sealed it with great stuff - but it is what it is... something to get one moving...

****** and with that said ***** I'd look at the shift forks because I can't think of anything else it could be (and I have scattered a couple - so there is that background)... thankfully parts for these things are pretty reasonable on ebay
 
and rather then edit.... I'm still on shift forks - if a pad fell off one of the forks, it would do what you're describing
 
are you sure all those funny looking circlips in place on the shifter linkage? they fall off and cause that same thing. if you can put it in all the gears wouldnt it be a linkage issue?
 
I checked everything again and I lost fluid in my hydraulic clutch. I put more fluid in and was able to shift into gears.

I just put new seals in the hydraulic throw out bearing when I was installing the new flywheel. I remember seeing a heavy scratch on the transmission spine. I am sure that's where it's leaking. It's not a deep scratch but bad enough to allow the pressure to make it leak.

My question, is it possible to fill in the scratch with something without taking the trans all apart replacing the spine? Like epoxy or something I can sand smooth.
 
which Muncie is it?

trying to think what would cause what you said - and all have noises associated with the failure. I'd pull the side cover and look - maybe something simple like a broken shift fork (hoping for the best for you). If not, I have a super t-10 that would bolt in place. It works fine except the center plate has a crack which leaked oil.... I sealed it with great stuff - but it is what it is... something to get one moving...

****** and with that said ***** I'd look at the shift forks because I can't think of anything else it could be (and I have scattered a couple - so there is that background)... thankfully parts for these things are pretty reasonable on ebay
I believe it's a t-10 but how would I tell for sure?
 
I checked everything again and I lost fluid in my hydraulic clutch. I put more fluid in and was able to shift into gears.

I just put new seals in the hydraulic throw out bearing when I was installing the new flywheel. I remember seeing a heavy scratch on the transmission spine. I am sure that's where it's leaking. It's not a deep scratch but bad enough to allow the pressure to make it leak.

My question, is it possible to fill in the scratch with something without taking the trans all apart replacing the spine? Like epoxy or something I can sand smooth.
those scratches rarely heal themselves...
 
I believe it's a t-10 but how would I tell for sure?

t-10s came in early 60s cars - they have a cast iron case, super t-10s came in the 70s (between those two dates were the muncies m-20 through m-22). The super t-10 is far closer to a muncie then the t-10. The Muncies and Super t-10 all had aluminum cases....
 

t-10s came in early 60s cars - they have a cast iron case, super t-10s came in the 70s (between those two dates were the muncies m-20 through m-22). The super t-10 is far closer to a muncie then the t-10. The Muncies and Super t-10 all had aluminum cases....
I have an aluminum case...
 
I have a 70-74 one inch cluster, 32 spine, w/transmission controled spark switch.

Main case #3925661
Tailshaft #3978764
7 bolt Side cover, 3952648
Other #P1T10A

Watching some dissemble videos, I need to replace the front bearing retainer. Looks like an easy fix, inexpensive if I can buy it. This is the part the throw out bearing slides on correct?
 
I checked everything again and I lost fluid in my hydraulic clutch. I put more fluid in and was able to shift into gears.

I just put new seals in the hydraulic throw out bearing when I was installing the new flywheel. I remember seeing a heavy scratch on the transmission spine. I am sure that's where it's leaking. It's not a deep scratch but bad enough to allow the pressure to make it leak.

My question, is it possible to fill in the scratch with something without taking the trans all apart replacing the spine? Like epoxy or something I can sand smooth.

A scratch on the input spline is not good but it shouldn't cause a leak in the hydraulic throw out bearing.
 
i cant visualize how the transmission spline scratch is making the hydraulic clutch leak. now for sure any scratches in the slave cylinder that is pushing the clutch lever, would cause a problem. if your hydraulic clutch system is leaking you should be able to look for fluid to tell if its the master cylinder, the slave cylinder or the hoses/connections. Look for the wet spot or drip. put a flattened card board box or white paper down and look for a visual tell tale


edit: this isn't making sense to me, even with no clutch you should be able to grind the shit out of the gears by using the shifter linkage and maybe even get it in gear. so if i read the problem statement right you couldnt even get any gear selection using the shifter. maybe you chickened out before the grinding started I know would. could you have manhandled the shifter to make the gears grind?
 
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i cant visualize how the transmission spline scratch is making the hydraulic clutch leak. now for sure any scratches in the slave cylinder that is pushing the clutch lever, would cause a problem. if your hydraulic clutch system is leaking you should be able to look for fluid to tell if its the master cylinder, the slave cylinder or the hoses/connections. Look for the wet spot or drip. put a flattened card board box or white paper down and look for a visual tell tale


edit: this isn't making sense to me, even with no clutch you should be able to grind the shit out of the gears by using the shifter linkage and maybe even get it in gear. so if i read the problem statement right you couldnt even get any gear selection using the shifter. maybe you chickened out before the grinding started I know would. could you have manhandled the shifter to make the gears grind?
The throw out bearing has an o ring that is sliding on the front bearing retainer where the scratch is. It's deep enough to allow the fluid to seep out under pressure. I installed all new seals when I swapped out the flywheel and it's not leaking at the slave cylinder or hose connectors. I bleed the line, and it's not holding very long. I can put fluid in the resivore and pump it up a little to drive the car. Everything works. I checked this morning and most of the fluid leaked out on my floor.

When I removed the old inner o ring to install a new one, I could see a very small blemish which caused it to leak before. I wasn't working on the car so I didn't pay attention to it. Is stayed parked. I had to be the scratch or groove that is causing it. Thoughts?
 
in old style brake cylinders any internal blemish is usually the kiss of death, is that blemish on the shaft or on the wall?
 
The scratch is on the front bearing retainer and the hydraulic throw out bearing sides right over it. I didn't think it was a big deal until now.

Originally I thought the problem was the input shaft not knowing the part structure. After watching a few utube videos rebuilding manual transmissions, I realized it was the retainer cover and it was not a bad part to replace and you can get them pretty much anywhere. I already ordered it and a gasket set with shipping for under $70. I ordered another throw out bearing rebuild kit to replace the o ring to make sure its not damaged. I don't want to take the transmission out again. I will take a picture of it when I remove the transmission and show you guys.
 

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I have never worked on a throw out bearing like that, I suppose the bearing is pretty much stationary becasue of the hoses going to it, so does the shaft rotate? could it have been in the down position and water collected there?
 
After removing the transmission, I can see two rings on the input shaft. I believe I have a M20 close ratio Muncie.

Ok, now the issue. The input retainer is not the issue. The o ring is fine. There is a sleeve that the bearing slides on that has 2 o rings. One is badly damaged. I don't know how but it looks like a piece of metal got into the line and jacked it up. I was pretty careful about putting it all back together and I have no idea how it happened. It actually damaged the sleeve too. I hope I can buy the sleeve but they might not sell it like that. I may want to get a different hydraulic throw out bearing because the one I have cost $600. See pictures.
 

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