Rack and pinion - homemade Steeroids with GrandAm rack

Hi!
Well done! Mybe my sefmade projekt can help you in some details. Let me know if you need any further help or drawings.

Best regards, Günther

Wow, Guenther, that is a clean install !!! The clamps however need the shear "channel" to take the side loads off the bolts - as pointed out in the other thread.

I have not made any progress since my last post... I got two 17" tie rods and I'm playing with the center bracket, I'm leaning towards plate material instead of the square tubing at this point....

MYBAD79 said:

Wow, Guenther, that is a clean install !!! The clamps however need the shear "channel" to take the side loads off the bolts - as pointed out in the other thread.

Click to expand...

Yes that´s correct. I will add them this winter.

Regards, Günther

although I agree with the recommendations made by Speed Direct in the CF thread I did find it almost laughable that THEY are commenting when in reality they are the world leader in building super flimsy downright dangerous bracketry for everything they make, not just steeroids but also the C6Z06 caliper conversion.

tie rod length

Gunthe,

To achieve your minimal bump steer what is the pivot center to pivot center length of your tie rods and what was the final thickness of the outer tie rod spacer?

That's next on Kasten's to do list.

Grampy

I can´t remember so I have to measure. But this will take 2-3 weeks, because I can´t get on the car lift right now.
Günther

Twin_Turbo said:

although I agree with the recommendations made by Speed Direct in the CF thread I did find it almost laughable that THEY are commenting when in reality they are the world leader in building super flimsy downright dangerous bracketry for everything they make, not just steeroids but also the C6Z06 caliper conversion.

Click to expand...

I read the last page, and so it seemed Steeroids was critical of my pass/right side mount on the rack, and I do NOT understand his comment....but I left it alone.....

but like I say, I keep looking, and testing on the textured concrete driveway, and see no evil in my install.....Johnny is a good welder, so I suppose his shit is right, he welds too many commercial pipes in power plants to mess up a silly couple of brackets,.......I was under there replacing the rubber mount for the driver side due to oil spill/rot, but that's been 10 years now the junkyard piece lasted....:beer:

Ok, finally a little progress..... I welded the drver side stiffener in place (what Grampy described on the previous page, photo with the yellow markings).....

One more accomplishment is the center bracket:



.
For the fit-up it was easier to insert the bolts from the front, for the final install I need shorter 1/2" fine thread bolts....

Bump steer may not be perfect but should be waaay better than the stock setup and geometry.... I have to say: I don't drive like Grandma but I never really felt like the stock steering was all that bad, aside from the box being 30+ years old and worn.... I had more than 1" of free play in the steering wheel but bump steer I never felt was a big problem.... Maybe my steering was so shitty that I never realized.....lol

:lol:

Ok.... I realize now why the Steeroids kit uses three U-joints..... It is freakin tight with only two, the angle of the steering shaft is borderline, it's just a hair from binding the joints....

I do not like it !!!

The rack can't go a lot further towards the front, I need some room for the tie rods..... The tie rods fit barely between the A-arm and the rack as it is.....

There are options: the steering column shaft could be shortened; that would improve the angles of the U-joints..... Or....... I could give up and use three U- joints.....

I'll play with it some more but for now I really want to see more details from you guys who use only two joints.....
1) How far back from the front crossmember is your rack??
2) using a protractor (anglefinder), what's the angle from your steering column shaft to the doubleD shaft ??

Boy, I am glad this is not my daily driver.... It's on jackstands for two months now .... Lol

MYBAD79 said:

Ok.... I realize now why the Steeroids kit uses three U-joints..... It is freakin tight with only two, the angle of the steering shaft is borderline, it's just a hair from binding the joints....

I do not like it !!!

The rack can't go a lot further towards the front, I need some room for the tie rods..... The tie rods fit barely between the A-arm and the rack as it is.....

There are options: the steering column shaft could be shortened; that would improve the angles of the U-joints..... Or....... I could give up and use three U- joints.....

I'll play with it some more but for now I really want to see more details from you guys who use only two joints.....
1) How far back from the front crossmember is your rack??
2) using a protractor (anglefinder), what's the angle from your steering column shaft to the doubleD shaft ??

Boy, I am glad this is not my daily driver.... It's on jackstands for two months now .... Lol

Click to expand...

Karsten, send me a email to make damn sure I don't miss this in the AM, and I will jack up the car, take measures, and show you my install, best as possible....

I don't have a lift, so maybe not the best pix around, but can give dimensions.....


I try to show a tape measure up there, but if not.....still say the positions best as I can describe....

:hi:

Gene, no rush !! Thanks for getting the measurements but it does not have to be tomorrow AM

I know it is possible to position the rack and use only two joints, just have to find that position ...LOL

From top of steering tube to bottom of frame is 3" from steering tube forward to the A arm FACE in rear, not the lower lip, is 6" , I can't clearly show that the lower engine arm was cut next to the frame to get the rack input up in the air, and relax the angle on the joint at the column end, still a stiff angle, but it's been that way for years now....Excuse the fugly red hose, but it's just to keep metal off metal, that's all....

you can see the spacers off the frame that are almost 1/2 inch that helped locate the rack and made mounting the bracket easier....you can see on the first pix just above the lower clamp/bolt the hole where that angle brace to the bottom of the frame was made it was bolted there, we thought to weld it later on, more secure, so the bolt was removed....

All I know is that the brackets do not move with tires on the ground and wheel being turned, manually or with engine/steering running, I fail to see why any support is needed between the brackets, as the one on the passenger side is just to hole that end of the rack, in fact the rack can easily slide back and forth on that end.....but there are no rub marks/traces of that happening....the U brackets came off the Grand Am so they are stock as a stove, except where one tab was bent and the bolt in vertically for better ground clearance on the right side.....

Check this out, maybe it helps. It´s thight, but it works! You have to shorten your steering shaft as much as you can. You can do this by collapsing it.











Regards, Günther

Awesome, thanks guys !!!! I think I learned two things: Gene's U-joints seem to be able to handle more angle than my FlamingRiver joints .... Gurnther managed to position the rack even further back withthe collapsed steering column ....

At this point it seems that if I collaps the column I get all the clearance and improve the joint angles ....

Gene: 6" from the A-arm to the tube, going to check that tomorrow
:thumbs:

MYBAD79 said:

Awesome, thanks guys !!!! I think I learned two things: Gene's U-joints seem to be able to handle more angle than my FlamingRiver joints .... Gurnther managed to position the rack even further back withthe collapsed steering column ....

At this point it seems that if I collaps the column I get all the clearance and improve the joint angles ....

Gene: 6" from the A-arm to the tube, going to check that tomorrow
:thumbs:

Click to expand...

Just to be clear, that is an even 6" from the back FACE of the LCA, not the bottom flange sticking out flat horizontal on the bottom, but the vertical part....and yes, my column was a later shark column almost from the beginning up north yet....this conversion done down here some 6 years after buying it.....and as such at some point, I moved the column back off the firewall about 3/4 inch or so, sealed it in, to bring the wheel toward me about much as possible, that also has the same affect as collapsing the shaft more.....and relaxing that upper universal...every degree helped....

Don't quote me on this, BUT, I maybe took a grinder to the joint up top to alleviate some hitting, allowing more angle.....but there was SO much cutting/testing/grinding/modifying on this project that went on for well over a month, I just can't remember every damn detail....

I know I have posted the sketches of the brackets here, some time ago....

:trumpet:

ok....... dumbass me..... I did not collapse the steering column so that explains why my Ujoints are binding.... I think if I move the upper Ujoint 1" back towards the firewall the angles will be perfect....

:tomato:


here's a pic that i found online, looks like there's at least 1-2" difference

MYBAD79 said:

ok....... dumbass me..... I did not collapse the steering column so that explains why my Ujoints are binding.... I think if I move the upper Ujoint 1" back towards the firewall the angles will be perfect....

:tomato:


here's a pic that i found online, looks like there's at least 1-2" difference

Click to expand...

Waitaminute!
I know this filthy garage ground....:huh:
Guess I'm getting kinda famous, just like when I image search for "'turbine wheel" and pic on my wheel is within 10 first find....

FYI the picture was depicting how collapsed was the white one, check the mounting ears being misaligned. That's why I had to dismantle it, in order to decollapse the tubes (and not the shaft).

EDIT: hurray, I managed to get firefox installed at work, and now I can post again!!!:yahoo:
EDIT2: the shaft on the black column on have been collapsed to accept a Borgeson steering box FYI

denpo said:

Waitaminute!
I know this filthy garage ground....:huh:

Click to expand...

that's yours? :lol:

amazing stuff we find on the internet ....

PROGRESS !!!

I collapsed the column which turned out to be rather simple, a few whacks with a hammer and it's done..... The column moved approximately 2" back towards the firewall, the Ujoint angles are far from binding, looking really goood

I think I'm going to replace the lower steering column bearing, anybody done this? I hope this is simple now that the header and the clutch linkage is out of the way, seems stupid not to do it now .....

The tire might hit the rack on the driver side although my rack is placed 1" further towards the front than Gene's..... We'll see how this goes.....

I have a little more grinding to do on the engine mount and then weld a piece of pipe in there to restore stiffness....

I was trying to compare your lateral placement to mine, and due to camera angles, and shit, it's hard to tell from the pix.....my only comment is that the input shaft is about as close to the frame rail as can be, the wheels/tires on my car kept the same wheel centerline as stock....and 255/50/17 up front....they do not rub, because I added about 1/2 inch to the stops on the lower A arm....and still have a shorter/narrower steering radius than my C4.....

:clobbered: