kwplot34
Heart Attack
Something for you EE's to discuss.
[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1149735778386216742&hl=en[/ame]
[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1149735778386216742&hl=en[/ame]
Check this out.
- Thread starter kwplot34
- Start date
69427
The Artist formerly known as Turbo84
I watched the video. (I started to nod off about twelve minutes into it, though.) I gotta see the schematic that he's talking about. To be honest, I had a bit of difficulty following him. He used a few phrases in different context than what I'm used to. A few things made sense, of course, but a couple items just made me go "What???". I'm a bit skeptical, but open enough to new ideas that I'll try to take a peek at the schematic he's talking about, assuming I can locate it.
But, to his credit, I do admire guys that are willing to try new stuff, and respect those who are willing to expose their work to review by others.
But, to his credit, I do admire guys that are willing to try new stuff, and respect those who are willing to expose their work to review by others.
BRUTAL64
Neanderthal
Yea, I found myself going "what" a few times. It seems like it is possible. I remember the talk many years ago of a guy who ran an I.C.E. engine with only water as fuel.:amused:
Bullshark
Well-known member
This stuff is not entirely all hype. Google "plasma ignition" or "plasma spark"and start reading. I have just started trying to digest the physics of it all. Sounds interesting:shocking:
Some preliminary conclusions:
Flame ignition by transient plasma or pulsed corona discharges is a promising technology for ignition delay & rise time reduction
More energy-efficient than spark discharges
Shorter ignition delay and rise times
Higher peak pressures
Benefits apply to turbulent flames also
Demonstrated in engines too
Higher IMEP (Indicated Mean Effective Pressure) for same conditions with same or better BSNOx (emissions)
Shorter burn times and faster heat release
Simplified schematic
Read this.......there will be a quiz tomorrow. :goodnight:
http://ronney.usc.edu/BernardLewis/CoronaIgnition/PresentationFiles/Corona.Ignition.Taiwan.2005.ppt
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kwplot34
Heart Attack
I knew somebody around here could make heads or tales of this,i watched 2 min's :zzz: so it is not a line of BS,when i found it i thought yeah right.
He could have used the 20 minutes more productively by stating his objective up front. I spent the first 8 minutes trying to figure out what he was trying to explain.
Then I was trying to figure out what happened to his wife or whoever was running the camera. Seems like she lost interest, disappeared or was electrocuted
Then I was trying to figure out what happened to his wife or whoever was running the camera. Seems like she lost interest, disappeared or was electrocuted
mrvette
Phantom of the Opera
That 'schematic is simplified to the point of stupid.....it's not doing anything....period....
second off, you can't burn water in a ICE no matter WHAT in fuck you hit for a spark......:smash::lol::crap:
second off, you can't burn water in a ICE no matter WHAT in fuck you hit for a spark......:smash::lol::crap:
big2bird
Charter Member, Founder Bird-Run, Cruise-In Bird-R
But where is "Mr. Fusion?"
Bullshark
Well-known member
Common Gene, before you chide all this, do your homework. It's not as all far fetched as you think. I admit, the guy was a little eccentric :bonkers: and didn't come across as polished and schooled on the topic as he should have been. The smartest technical people I know are terrible communicators.
Hell, First person I thought off when watching the clip was you. :lol: :footmouth:
Here is some additional schematics with supporting discription for your reading pleasure. :bounce:
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Water%20Spark%20Plug.pdf
kwplot34
Heart Attack
Yeah when i first listened to that video i thought this must be a relative of Gene's because he is using Gene-o-type
BRUTAL64
Neanderthal
Well, isn't water H 2 0. Both can go boom by themselves. :bump:
So if you break the bond of the atoms...............................:flash:
TimAT
Addict, Cruise-In Bird-Run 1 Veteran
I can make a Quaker Oats can disappear.. Water (H20), a battery, some wire, set up a little electrolysis, fill the can with the hydrogen from that, add a little spark. No more Oats can. Add a touch of O2 to that and it'll really go away. And in a fairly spectacular fashion.
kwplot34
Heart Attack
I think you need to make us a video of that,like the one you did with the dizzy and the soldering gun, but you will have to find yourself a new camera guy
TimAT
Addict, Cruise-In Bird-Run 1 Veteran
No blood, no band-aid
kwplot34
Heart Attack
SmokinBBC
Well-known member
I think you need to make us a video of that,like the one you did with the dizzy and the soldering gun, but you will have to find yourself a new camera guy
Must be an inside story.......but it sounds like Tim talked you into some kind of experiment that went right for him but wrong for you:lol:
So what did you get into?
69427
The Artist formerly known as Turbo84
............................
Simplified schematic
..................
Just a few of my thoughts:
Schematics for development systems and production systems frequently vary significantly due to cost and durability concerns. The schematic above represents a development system to prove out the idea of this type of ignition system. I've been there before, so I understand the author's reasoning here.
I have some questions about the concept, primarily because the majority of my experience is on the control (module) side, versus what is happening inside the cylinder. There were earlier claims of less ignition delay and more energy efficient arcing, but the schematic shows (on the right side) a typical set of points, a (step-up transformer) coil, and a battery power source, the same ignition setup on most all cars for the past several decades. Where this system deviates from current systems is that at the point where the initial spark has died down to a bit less (in absolute numbers) than minus 120 volts (the actual number would depend on the forward voltage drop of the diode string (symbolized by the single diode in the top center of the schematic), then the -120 volt storage system would start to conduct and supply a burst of current as long as the ionized area in the chamber continued to be conductive. I'm sure the arc is as impressive as they claim. Theoretically this should light off a bit more of the mixture, promoting a slightly faster combustion rate. A good thing in most cases.
I have a couple of issues I'm not comfortable with for a production vehicle, though.
1) Cost: The high capacitance, high voltage capacitors are not cheap. The high voltage diodes, similarly, are not individually cheap, and several of these would be needed in this system. The additional inductors needed to build the inverter section (or the very long extension cord) would further increase the cost.
2) Size and mass: The OEMs are trying to reduce both of these in their vehicles. The payoff, in performance and mileage, must be greater than the weight and volume penalty.
3) Reliability: These parts are expected to survive for years, and thousands of miles, all the while dealing with these high voltages. It's a challenge to find affordable parts that can guarantee the necessary robustness. Spark plug life is an issue I'm unqualified to answer.
4) Safety: We've all gotten bit by a plug wire at least once in our "career" as an automotive enthusiast. I'm not terribly worried about the initial shock from the ignition coil (I'm still here after several encounters with different ignition coils), but I have no idea what the energy level, and current levels are for the add-on system. For an OEM, it's considered bad form to electrocute any of your dealer technicians or customers who happen to be working under the hood.
Regarding the whole water thing, I'm too rusty when it comes to remembering stuff from Chemistry class, so I don't know where the breakeven point is regarding energy in (to break the molecular bonds) and the energy out (the energy released when the hydrogen and oxygen recombine). The alternator (with about a 50% efficiency level) has to generate the energy that the ignition system uses, and the engine has to turn the alternator load. Water is cheap, but how much can you put in without possibly snuffing out the flame if the water just turns into steam (rather than H and O) from the arc. I'm not qualified to answer that either.
Again, just my thoughts. If I wasn't busy working on other stuff I might be amused playing with this sort of stuff. Unfortunately, there's only so many hours in a day, and I'm spending too many of them at the keyboard instead of out in the garage, where I'm headed to right now. (This information is probably worth exactly what you paid for it. LOL)
kwplot34
Heart Attack
I think you need to make us a video of that,like the one you did with the dizzy and the soldering gun, but you will have to find yourself a new camera guy
Must be an inside story.......but it sounds like Tim talked you into some kind of experiment that went right for him but wrong for you:lol:
So what did you get into?
Oh Tim was trying to show how a solder gun would cause a dizzy to spark,so Tim asked me to film it while he held the solder gun to make it spark and then he wanted me to put my fingers next to the terminal so it would arc :shocking:
SmokinBBC
Well-known member
I think you need to make us a video of that,like the one you did with the dizzy and the soldering gun, but you will have to find yourself a new camera guy
Must be an inside story.......but it sounds like Tim talked you into some kind of experiment that went right for him but wrong for you:lol:
So what did you get into?
Oh Tim was trying to show how a solder gun would cause a dizzy to spark,so Tim asked me to film it while he held the solder gun to make it spark and then he wanted me to put my fingers next to the terminal so it would arc :shocking:
Shocking...Just shocking:flash: