Lifter valley smoothing and painting?

Guys, I've always been curious about something. In engine building articles over the years the hot rod magazines always showed the guy smoothing and painting the lifter valley with Glyptal. The whole reason was always that it "promoted oil drainage" back to the sump. I always had difficulty accepting that the oil was hanging up that bad on the original "as cast" surface. For discussion let's just say that the oil was slower in draining down the original surface. Is that really a problem? That just seems to me to be a free oil cooler setup, whereby the block material would transfer heat from the hot oil to the coolant. Am I way off base? I've never (internally) painted any of my engines, partly because of the above reason, and the fear of the paint coming loose and plugging the oil pump screen.

Comments, thoughts, opinions?

69427 said:

and the fear of the paint coming loose and plugging the oil pump screen.

Comments, thoughts, opinions?

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Bingo, That'd be my concern. I always thought that was a bad idea.

What's the actual concern ? Would the faster drainback prevent the pan from being sucked dry by a high volume oil pump ??? I would think a 7qt pan would do a better job ...

Glyptal won't come off if applied to a clean surface. I have several engines with that stuff painted inside and none even have a single chip.

The reason is to promote drainback using the front and rear drain holes, so the block is modified to promote those paths and then smoothed or painted. It also keeps the casting from retaining sludge. Oil held up in the rocker boxes and valley is wasted volume. Volume building up and draining profusely on the cam and crank causes excessive windage.

I contacted GE back in the day before the internet, used a thing called a telephone and called them. The engineer I spoke with said tha he would not recommend it or do it to his engine as they had never tested Glyptal in that application. He stated the heat was acceptible but had no idea about the long term effects to the coating from the oil and other hydrocarbons present in the oil as it became contaminated.

I didn't use it.

That's strange. GE uses Glyptal coatings on aircraft engine parts.

And Borg Warner used it factory on their 9 bolt rear axles, pretty common on ford 9" ers too. GM performance even lists it in their power manuals,the engines on the cover of one edition even had a glyptal covered valley and crank case.

Factory F body 9 bolt:



None of these ever showed signs of flaking off




In fact when I painted the valley on oen engine some of the glyptal dripped over the freshly machined deck and also some of what I painted in the timing cover area dripped onto the fact of the front main. It took a lot of effort to get it off, it was really on there

Twin_Turbo said:

And Borg Warner used it factory on their 9 bolt rear axles, pretty common on ford 9" ers too. GM performance even lists it in their power manuals,the engines on the cover of one edition even had a glyptal covered valley and crank case.

Factory F body 9 bolt:



None of these ever showed signs of flaking off
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I don't understand the use of it in a gear/axle application. It just seems like the paint is an additional thermal impedance between the lube and the outside air.

That axle has friction cones so the oil tends to get cloudy, this stuff was probably used so contaminants would flush out and not contaminate the castings. As for oil cooling, I really don't think it relies that heavily on the housing, the axle tubes are uncoated

I did my engine a few years back. I didn't do a lot of smoothing in the lifter valley, some, but not a lot. I did, however, do quite a bit in the head area to get the oil out of there. Last time I had the covers off no indication of flaking. I will use it again any time I build a hi-po engine.

Another option is polishing the cast surface. It is very time consuming, but makes the block stronger. All oil return chamfered and polished.
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Hey RED! can you give us some info on what kind of tool's you used to smooth your block out like that. I have a Dremmel and a motor with with a flex cable.

kwplot, I also have a dremel with all the accessories, but don't recall using it on the block. I start out using a carbide burr on a die grinder to soften the roughest areas, but be careful; a good burr eats material fast and you can go too far quickly. Also, a burr can make cuts hard to smooth out later. After a little with the burr, I use stones on a drill. Most of the 1/4 shank stones I use came from Harbor freight and that I bought on sale.

Once I have the surface smoothed out to my liking, I use a long shoulder bolt with a hack saw notch cut in it for some paper rolls. I cut a strip of emory or any paper I have handy, coil it around the long shoulder bolt and start polishing with the drill. Start with coarse paper and work down to finer grit. There are pre made paper rolls available for this, but I always make my own and like the reach of the 6 inch shoulder bolt. Check the Eastwood catalog, or Harbor freight for pre made paper rolls. This is the way I have polished three lifter valleys.

After each one, I swear I will never do another. Plan on spending 25+ hours doing it, but of course, the higher the finish the more time. There is no magic or secret trick I know of, just an exercise of will and endurance. You start with coarse cutters and work down to finer and progressively finer grits until the desired finish is achieved.

You might try the dremel, but I suspect the motor will burn out long before you finish. I have had mine sent back for rebuild once and now just buy a new one when on sale. It is about the same price and maybe less expensive buying new. I buy Chicago electric drills from HF when on sale and keep at least one backup handy. Good luck!

As an after thought I will add: if you have access to a source of rotary files of different shapes you can use them. I did my first block that way and liked the rotaty files. My local hardware store had a great selection of different shapes that worked for me, but no store near me has any since I moved.

Thanks for the info RED, I have a die grinder and some carbide bit's,some various grinding stones,and emery cloth. I might try this on the new motor i am building. You are right about the dremels, i have burnt up a few of those, i do have an electric motor with a 3' flex shaft that has held up so far that i got from Eastwood's.

kwplot34 said:

Thanks for the info RED, I have a die grinder and some carbide bit's,some various grinding stones,and emery cloth. I might try this on the new motor i am building. You are right about the dremels, i have burnt up a few of those, i do have an electric motor with a 3' flex shaft that has held up so far that i got from Eastwood's.

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Your flex shaft sounds like a winner if the motor has any nuts to it and the chuck will hold a 1/4 inch shank bit. Avoid any burrs with a sharp edge, like a drum, and only use curved shapes. Time in polishing is reduced when you use more powerful cutters, but care is needed. The Dremel is a fine tool, but too weak for this job and increase work time at least two fold. It sounds like you have the tools needed and just need to find the time. Good luck and have fun! LOL:mobeer:

RED, that block looks BEAUTIFUL! Something about shiny metal. Like jewelry for guys.
As for the Dremel, the things rock. Look on craigslist or through local garage sales for the older models. The new ones are teh suck. I had three. The newest one lasted less than two years. The two older ones are at least 10 years old and I did all the work on several sets of heads and my latest engine plus dozens of little home projects. Their only shortcoming is even with the flexible cable, they just don't have the reach for intake ports.

As much as I admire that gorgeous shiny surface I glyptal every block and gearbox and diff that I build. Only had one block in twenty years shed the coating and that was clearly from inadequate prep. The surface must be clean.

All high Dollar industrial castings are painted inside.

My experience is that subsequent oil changes show dramatically cleaner oil. My thinking is it traps all the carbon crap in the pores of the casting so it can't escape to the oil.

Red, that's just beautiful! hoto:

But, I bet you'll get more "smiles per hour" by doing that to the outside of the block instead of the inside!

Cheers!

Now kwplot will figure out how to how to hook that flex shaft to the PTO on his tractor so he can get done in less time.

TimAT said:

Now kwplot will figure out how to how to hook that flex shaft to the PTO on his tractor so he can get done in less time.

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I am already working on that Tim. :nuts: