Serpentine Conversion Questions

DC3

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
332
Location
Lubbock Texas
Been thinking about converting my '73 to a serpentine belt system. Ran across a complete set of brackets and pulleys from a 1998 S-10. Didn't buy yet because I'm concerned about fitment. This is not usually one of the choices I see in donor vehicles when talking about these conversions. Anyone know if this is a good choice?

I have already converted to a CS144 alternator and Vintage Air AC (Sanden Compressor) along with dual Spals instead of the mechanical fan. Will I be able to use my existing alternator and compressor with just a pulley swap?

Any better choices for brackets? I looked at the GM kit but didn't really want to pay that much when I already have a new AC compressor and alternator.

I only have 1 accessory hole in the passenger side head. Any advice for drilling the others? Can it be done without pulling the head?

What water pump would be recommended for this conversion?

Thanks,

DC
 
either use the vette setup above or an F body, easiest to get done that way.
 
I'd use the F-body brackets, they're more available than the C4 Corvette parts and keep everything in the same position as original. They were also used on some V8 Caprices and other sedans. I think any truck-based brackets are going to be too tall. I know the full-size pickup brackets won't come close to fitting.

The CS144 is a bit trickier. There is an adapter bracket, but mine wouldn't fit right even with it. I ended up using a die grinder to clearance both the alternator housing and the bracket. Also, if you need to swap the pulley on the CS144, it can be a bit tricky. I tried everything to get the split cone lock washer out and was about to give up before I tried one more trick and it dropped out. I just can't remember what the trick was...

I think there's a picture around here of my car with the radiator out and the serpentine system installed. If not, it's over at DC or CF.
 
I have a '88-91 vette serp drive on my '89 truck roller block with L98 heads....

through the 18 years I have had this car, I have had all sorts of heads on it, among them some older iron heads with the missing accessory bolt on pass side, due to rounded off older casting, instead of squared off and drilled/tapped the way needed....what it does is make that upper bolt in the pair off my bracket, cant be used in the typical fashion...SO, I found that making a steel bracket from the front intake bolt and going down behind the bracket, you can bolt it to the steel, it worked fine for me for years that way, after having the stock a/c bracket break due to vibrations, and having it TIG'd in repair.....

I too now have spal fans, and I have stuck with my '17SI alt...good for 108 amps, due to it's been on the car for some 17? years now.....

my engine had injection on it, a highly modded LT1 induction with HEI in back, helps to know a GOOD TIG welder buddy.....


:clap::beer:
 
I have a '88-91 vette serp drive on my '89 truck roller block with L98 heads....

through the 18 years I have had this car, I have had all sorts of heads on it, among them some older iron heads with the missing accessory bolt on pass side, due to rounded off older casting, instead of squared off and drilled/tapped the way needed....what it does is make that upper bolt in the pair off my bracket, cant be used in the typical fashion...SO, I found that making a steel bracket from the front intake bolt and going down behind the bracket, you can bolt it to the steel, it worked fine for me for years that way, after having the stock a/c bracket break due to vibrations, and having it TIG'd in repair.....

I too now have spal fans, and I have stuck with my '17SI alt...good for 108 amps, due to it's been on the car for some 17? years now.....

my engine had injection on it, a highly modded LT1 induction with HEI in back, helps to know a GOOD TIG welder buddy.....
:clap::beer:

I just got a complete setup from a 89 Vette for my 78- can I use the 89 AC compressor, water pump and alternator? I may go with Vintage Air so
I think they use a Sanden. Don't know if the water pump is long/short or reverse rotation but I think is best to just use a new WP.
 
I have a '88-91 vette serp drive on my '89 truck roller block with L98 heads....

through the 18 years I have had this car, I have had all sorts of heads on it, among them some older iron heads with the missing accessory bolt on pass side, due to rounded off older casting, instead of squared off and drilled/tapped the way needed....what it does is make that upper bolt in the pair off my bracket, cant be used in the typical fashion...SO, I found that making a steel bracket from the front intake bolt and going down behind the bracket, you can bolt it to the steel, it worked fine for me for years that way, after having the stock a/c bracket break due to vibrations, and having it TIG'd in repair.....

I too now have spal fans, and I have stuck with my '17SI alt...good for 108 amps, due to it's been on the car for some 17? years now.....

my engine had injection on it, a highly modded LT1 induction with HEI in back, helps to know a GOOD TIG welder buddy.....
:clap::beer:

I just got a complete setup from a 89 Vette for my 78- can I use the 89 AC compressor, water pump and alternator? I may go with Vintage Air so
I think they use a Sanden. Don't know if the water pump is long/short or reverse rotation but I think is best to just use a new WP.

Yep, everything is a bolt in, just that one upper bolt needing a bracket fabbed up, as running that a/c bracket without it will fatigue the aluminum and it will crack....there are two bolts about 2" apart, one above the other going into the head....V/Air should be fine with the stock '89 vette compressor, I have mine hooked up with custom hoses into the essentially stock '72 HVAC setup....even with 134, and in FLORIDA, it cools ok with the stock condenser in front, reason is I have it sealed up good, dual spal fans, and with my custom grill and fixed headlights, I have plenty of air induction at speed, :3rd::nuts:
 
Thanks mrvette! Appreciate the guidance! I should get the parts by the middle of this week at the latest. I am excited to get started on this!

John
 
Thanks mrvette! Appreciate the guidance! I should get the parts by the middle of this week at the latest. I am excited to get started on this!

John

KEEP IN MIND, you will most likely need a GOOD HVAC shop that can FAB their own custom hoses, and so I found one here in Jax Florida, years ago....but in the Wash DC region there was NO ONE TO BE FOUND>>>>>

just like exhaust shops up there, no one fabbed up pipes.....

but I know MY setup works....

:cool::harhar:
 
I'd use the F-body brackets, they're more available than the C4 Corvette parts and keep everything in the same position as original. They were also used on some V8 Caprices and other sedans. I think any truck-based brackets are going to be too tall. I know the full-size pickup brackets won't come close to fitting.

The CS144 is a bit trickier. There is an adapter bracket, but mine wouldn't fit right even with it. I ended up using a die grinder to clearance both the alternator housing and the bracket. Also, if you need to swap the pulley on the CS144, it can be a bit tricky. I tried everything to get the split cone lock washer out and was about to give up before I tried one more trick and it dropped out. I just can't remember what the trick was...

I think there's a picture around here of my car with the radiator out and the serpentine system installed. If not, it's over at DC or CF.

Thanks Sam,

I wonder if any donor car choices for the brackets used the CS144? I didn't have any issues swapping a v-belt pulley for the serpentine when I bought the CS144 and I kept the serpentine pulley so hopefully no issues going back the other way.

Does anyone know if the Sanden compressor for my VA AC system will bolt up to the serpentine brackets?

And I'd still like some advice on how best to drill the holes in the head.

Thanks,

DC
 
I'd use the F-body brackets, they're more available than the C4 Corvette parts and keep everything in the same position as original. They were also used on some V8 Caprices and other sedans. I think any truck-based brackets are going to be too tall. I know the full-size pickup brackets won't come close to fitting.

The CS144 is a bit trickier. There is an adapter bracket, but mine wouldn't fit right even with it. I ended up using a die grinder to clearance both the alternator housing and the bracket. Also, if you need to swap the pulley on the CS144, it can be a bit tricky. I tried everything to get the split cone lock washer out and was about to give up before I tried one more trick and it dropped out. I just can't remember what the trick was...

I think there's a picture around here of my car with the radiator out and the serpentine system installed. If not, it's over at DC or CF.

Thanks Sam,

I wonder if any donor car choices for the brackets used the CS144? I didn't have any issues swapping a v-belt pulley for the serpentine when I bought the CS144 and I kept the serpentine pulley so hopefully no issues going back the other way.

Does anyone know if the Sanden compressor for my VA AC system will bolt up to the serpentine brackets?

And I'd still like some advice on how best to drill the holes in the head.

Thanks,

DC

Here is how a 88-91 vette a/c compressor mounts up, 4 bolts through the side of it. Hope this helps.

moreshine008_zpsb227df19.jpg
 
I put a ZZ4 in my 68 and installed a GM Performance Parts catalog serpentine belt drive system. The GMPP serpentine system is a good buy since one version of the kit includes a reverse rotation water pump, an alternator, a power steering pump. One version of the kit includes a R4 air conditioner compressor and the AC delete version has a dummy pulley. The GMPP Serpentine is actually the serpentine kit sold on 91 and 92 Camaros and Firebirds.

Get a recent copy of the GMPP catalog (download it). Only look up the serpentine kits for SB engines. LOOK AT ANYTHING ELSE AT YOUR PERIL.. They have some tantalizing crate engines and other accessory parts. If you do look through the entire catalog, you'll see ZZ4 engines, ZZ383's, ZZ502's, 546 engines, newly manufactured all aluminum 427's. etc.

The Serpentine kit has a reverse rotation water pump, so you'll need electric fans. Think you said you had a electric fan. The cast iron water pump is gross, Edelbrock makes a reverse rotation aluminum water pump. The kit has all cast aluminum brackets which makes it look nice.

The GMPP serpentine kits bolt onto standard SB heads. The traditional SB heads are missing one bolt hole. The GMPP instruction manual says don't worry about it, it's not needed. My ZZ4 heads are missing this bolt hole and there's been absolutely no problem. The GMPP serpentine kit has an idler pulley on a bracket. Mount the bracket upside down, to avoid interference with the passenger's side spring tower. Upside down, everything works just fine, even with the stock belt. If you use the GMPP catalog serpentine kit, there's the appearance of a problem getting the radiator water hose to the thermostat housing. There's another really simple solution. Get a metal flex hose from Summit. Bend it to fit correctly between the serpentine kit belt system.
 
I put a ZZ4 in my 68 and installed a GM Performance Parts catalog serpentine belt drive system. The GMPP serpentine system is a good buy since one version of the kit includes a reverse rotation water pump, an alternator, a power steering pump. One version of the kit includes a R4 air conditioner compressor and the AC delete version has a dummy pulley. The GMPP Serpentine is actually the serpentine kit sold on 91 and 92 Camaros and Firebirds.

Get a recent copy of the GMPP catalog (download it). Only look up the serpentine kits for SB engines. LOOK AT ANYTHING ELSE AT YOUR PERIL.. They have some tantalizing crate engines and other accessory parts. If you do look through the entire catalog, you'll see ZZ4 engines, ZZ383's, ZZ502's, 546 engines, newly manufactured all aluminum 427's. etc.

The Serpentine kit has a reverse rotation water pump, so you'll need electric fans. Think you said you had a electric fan. The cast iron water pump is gross, Edelbrock makes a reverse rotation aluminum water pump. The kit has all cast aluminum brackets which makes it look nice.

The GMPP serpentine kits bolt onto standard SB heads. The traditional SB heads are missing one bolt hole. The GMPP instruction manual says don't worry about it, it's not needed. My ZZ4 heads are missing this bolt hole and there's been absolutely no problem. The GMPP serpentine kit has an idler pulley on a bracket. Mount the bracket upside down, to avoid interference with the passenger's side spring tower. Upside down, everything works just fine, even with the stock belt. If you use the GMPP catalog serpentine kit, there's the appearance of a problem getting the radiator water hose to the thermostat housing. There's another really simple solution. Get a metal flex hose from Summit. Bend it to fit correctly between the serpentine kit belt system.

All that is, is a over priced f-body serpentine system
 
without the nice olriginal torx bolts .and studs I might add. Way too much money for something you can grab at a junkyard for next to nothing. All 88+ F bodies and a lot of other cars came with these., 87 and earlier is a V and flat belt combo, same as on G bodies etc.
 
Refer to this article:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0911_serpentine_belt_drive/viewall.html

I am into the same process for my 78 C3. First of all, my requirement was a no-AIR-pump system. A friend of mine installed the GMPP serpentine into his ZZ383 (GMPP) 67 Camero. A very nice setup but the idler wheel setup in the AIR-pump-bracket will not fit the C3 without modification. After some research I bought a complete serpentine set up from a 92 -94 Suburban C1500 truck V6/V8 on E-Bay. Paid 200USD plus 65 S/H. The set up will fit CS130 and R4 only.

KGrHqJjE6IdOehm6BOn37SGYZw60_12.jpg

IMG_1902.jpg




Have look here:
http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4203&page=10

Arne
 
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There is no need for an idler wheel in the air pump setup, only for the aC if you delete that. Smart routing of the STOCK! belt completely eliminates the AIR pump and you have more than enough room

25071cce879942.jpg

25071cce92e9e6.jpg
 
There is no need for an idler wheel in the air pump setup, only for the aC if you delete that. Smart routing of the STOCK! belt completely eliminates the AIR pump and you have more than enough room



25071cce92e9e6.jpg

With no a/c comp, you may well be fine with that routing, but I look at the maybe 90* around the crank pulley, and note that it's much less wrap than I have seen from any factory install....but in Florida I don't see cars w/o AC....

:eek:
 
What do you mean with no AC? The AC delete pulley on the top is exactly how it would run with the AC. The guy was talking about the air pump interfering, it hangs in the bottom of that bracket.

The pulley wrap is fine, I never had any issues with it and am running this exactly like this on more than 1 car. Hell, half of thirdgen.org runs it that way also.

This is to delete the AIR pump, not the AC
 
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