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Old 06-20-2009, 10:05 AM
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Default Titan 0.062" Copper Headgaskets

I have ordered a 0.062" thick copper headgaskets (SCE-T11066) to lower static compression ratio from approx 10.5 :1 to 9.5:1. Using 383CUI block and Procomp 210cc (PC3003S) alus with 68cc combustion chambers. Any issues regarding theese TITAN .062 gaskets?

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I have a set of FEL-PRO 0.041"s in reserve.

rgds
Arne
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Old 06-20-2009, 01:32 PM
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Isn't there some issue with using copper head gaskets on an iron block w/ aluminum heads? I returned some copper gaskets a while back because (I think) when I got them it said on the package not to use w/aluminum heads.
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Old 06-20-2009, 01:52 PM
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Isn't there some issue with using copper head gaskets on an iron block w/ aluminum heads? I returned some copper gaskets a while back because (I think) when I got them it said on the package not to use w/aluminum heads.
I was wondering about that....talk of a 'copper top' battery....
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Old 06-20-2009, 02:21 PM
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I don't think the issue is electrolytic, I think it is the difference in expansion.

I think racers like copper becuse they are reusable and perform well for a car with limited miles between teardown.

Found this at Flatout Gaskets. But the article talks about improvements to copper to fix these issues:

With most builders settled and satisfied with their personal choices in the combustion seal area for their applications, industry focus has switched mainly to fluid sealing. Many racing engine head/block combinations are bi-metal (aluminum head with cast-iron block) which increases the challenge. Thermal rates of expansion differ tremendously between the two materials and the resultant scrubbing effect can play havoc on a gasket’s sealing surface, especially around coolant or oil ports. Although in theory this certainly holds some merit by allowing the soft copper to actually embed into the fluid port areas, it also sacrifices combustion seal strength. Still, although the fluid sealability may improve by “mechanically clinching” or clamping the copper in the port areas, once the “thermal scrubbing” effect was added, the gasket effectiveness would be brought into jeopardy.
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Old 06-20-2009, 04:01 PM
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I don't think the issue is electrolytic, I think it is the difference in expansion.

I think racers like copper becuse they are reusable and perform well for a car with limited miles between teardown.

.....
The Titan Head Gaskets cost 3 times stock head gaskets and the advert says that these are the World’s first self sealing copper head gaskets and that they are made of a soft copper which makes them ready for installation out of the box. That is very convienent if compared with other copper head gaskets which often need extra sealing around water channels and steel rings around cylinder bore surface. Any comments on this?

rgds
Arne
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arneoe View Post
I have ordered a 0.062" thick copper headgaskets (SCE-T11066) to lower static compression ratio from approx 10.5 :1 to 9.5:1. Using 383CUI block and Procomp 210cc (PC3003S) alus with 68cc combustion chambers. Any issues regarding theese TITAN .062 gaskets?

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]

I have a set of FEL-PRO 0.041"s in reserve.

rgds
Arne
Is your block '0' decked? Even so, a quench of 0.062 is not ideal. If not decked, you may be subject to detonation.
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Old 06-21-2009, 05:24 AM
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Is your block '0' decked? Even so, a quench of 0.062 is not ideal. If not decked, you may be subject to detonation.
Please state the ideal "quench" height when detonation is not a subject? The engine has flat top pistons (5cc), standard sbc 350 block height, 54 degr. overlap seat to seat and Vortec like chambers (68cc).

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Arne
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:31 AM
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Is your block '0' decked? Even so, a quench of 0.062 is not ideal. If not decked, you may be subject to detonation.
Please state the ideal "quench" height when detonation is not a subject? The engine has flat top pistons (5cc), standard sbc 350 block height, 54 degr. overlap seat to seat and Vortec like chambers (68cc).

rgds
Arne
I have been led to believe that 0.040-0.045 is the ideal quench. 0.062 + depth of piston in the hole may give you (0.062 + 0.025) a quench of 0.087, which is no quench (squish) at all.

Why are you tring to reduce your static CR? Were you having problems? 10.50 is not bad. I run 10.30 in my stroker (8.2 dynamic CR) on 89 octane fuel without a problem. I do have aluminum heads.

I also heard, that using a thicker head gasket to reduce CR may also increase the likelyhood of detonation. I have no experience with this, but several on this forum have mentioned this.

I hope others will comment on this, also.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by glen242 View Post

I have been led to believe that 0.040-0.045 is the ideal quench. 0.062 + depth of piston in the hole may give you (0.062 + 0.025) a quench of 0.087, which is no quench (squish) at all.

Why are you tring to reduce your static CR? Were you having problems? 10.50 is not bad. I run 10.30 in my stroker (8.2 dynamic CR) on 89 octane fuel without a problem. I do have aluminum heads.

I also heard, that using a thicker head gasket to reduce CR may also increase the likelyhood of detonation. I have no experience with this, but several on this forum have mentioned this.

I hope others will comment on this, also.
Thank you... very good information! Now I got picture of what you have read and what you have actually experienced.

Currently, I do not have any detonation problems. The engine I refer to has never been run, but is dwelling in my garage waiting to be installed, hopefully this summer.

The motor is a complete crate 383CUI / 360HP with near stock iron smog heads and a XE268H cam. The CR is 9.6:1 and will probably work fine as it is on pump gas. The plan was to install the motor as is and buy an extra set of cylinder heads to do some porting in my free time while preparing my second motor build (a mild tuned 350). I bought a set of ProComp PC3003 aluminium, which turned out to be much better than I expected. The experts have done my job…. not much improvement needed for street use. The intake runners on the ProComp (probably an Edelbrock E-200 clone, Vortec extra high intake runners) are much bigger than on my Edelbrock #27164 EPS (Vortec) and I have to do some gasket matching on the manifold prior to installation. You see the alu cylinder heads could easily be swapped prior to engine installation.

So back to my small dilemma; which head gasket should I use? I have to choose between:

(1) Titan 0.062” racing copper gaskets
(2) FelPro 0.041” near stock gaskets

With the 0.041" gaskets I will have approx the same static CR as you. What is your cam overlap?

Best regards
Arne
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:12 PM
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Same problem I had when I built my 383: piston choice (forged) is limited to -5cc flat tops or domed pistons that bump the CR too high with 64cc heads. I used forged KB pistons with -17cc dish and a thin .028" MrGasket head gasket to get the CR close to 10:1 with good quench. (block was decked to 9.005")

With your standard deck height the piston is probably .025-.030 in the hole. Measure that distance before you order any gaskets. .070-.080 quench is not all that great.

If the cam bleeds off enough compression you might be able to get away with a thin .028" head gasket

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assuming -5cc pistons, .030 overbore, gasket plus piston in the hole =.050" and 68cc chambers it's 10.5: 1, with 64cc heads it's 10.8:1

Machining the heads to 70cc might be another option ??
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