Rustang goodness: help me convince my friend

clutchdust

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I have a friend who knows about cars, but doesn't know engines really well. Last week he bought a '70 Mustang rolling chassis and he wants me to help him put a drivetrain in it. He wants a car that he can take to the track and will be fast and "tossable". He is all hot to trot for a big block because he wants the torque, I get that. But I have a guy who's willing to swap a late model 302 roller block, complete with heads and Edelbrock 4bbl intake for a little AC work.
I'm trying to convince him that I can get him everything he wants with the 302 and some good heads without the weight penalty of a 390 or 460 engine. My thinking is a decent set of aluminum heads and a cam somewhere in the 280-295 range, headers and good carb, and he'll be pushing close to 400hp. Throw that in a light weight Mustang body and he's going to have pretty much everything he wants.
Of course he's stuck on a big block but I just don't think he gets the disadvantage of all that weight. Even if we end up going with all aluminum top end, that's just going to weigh a ton (well, figuratively anyway). Sure, if we go all out, ultimately we can make more power with a 460. But I'm arguing that for anything under 450hp, he's just better off with a small block.
What thinks you?
 
Twixt and tween, I can see both sides.....

Out and out drag racing, with tubbed rear end, and a indestructible diffy.....

Big block, and brute force....but fuggetaboutit for street use.....

I would go small block though, 351 being largest, nothing matter with a 5.0 a mustang friend here has one he kicks around pretty quickly....

and you CAN get it around a corner too.....:stirpot:

BEST use I could find for my daze of Pontiac 455+ engines, was as a tow car......


:lol:
 
I had a 67 Camaro with a 454 and 4 speed.... you know that bit about inertia? (what is in motion tends to stay in motion, and in the same direction) - it's true. That car was a handful on dry pavement (nevermind that I used it as my transportation while I was ski patrol). Torque is not your friend in the snow because there is little that is gradual about the curve - the trick was to keep the revs up and pay close attention to what you were doing.

For track (doubly so for autocross), you want an rpm range, and you need to stay in that range, if you're having to dig into torque; you're doing it wrong.

Or.... maybe I can dig up an autocross result from a 2 decades ago (NCRS) - back in the days when they actually raced their cars; not their chalk marks; there were two C3s, same year, same options (none) and the SBC finished so much faster then the BBC that it ate the BBC's lunch and had time for dessert after doing cones.
 
If you're spending the money for a 302, why not go 347?

Also - The stock Ford 302 blocks are prone to splitting from the lifter valley down through the mains. The FRP blocks are worth the extra dough.. or other aftermarket blocks.

And that's my $0.02.
 
Oh, I should probably expand this little story.
My buddy here is originally from France, and he's kinda mechanically inclined, but I wouldn't exactly call him a mechanic. So every time we talk he gets all excited and wants to know how much power he can make. We start talking and I tell him I can probably make him a solid 500hp with the 390 if we go aluminum heads and intake and a nice roller cam. His eyes light up until he sees how much all that yummy horsepowery goodness costs. Then he's like (in my worst French accent), "Oh no, that's a lot more than I can spend". So I tell him I can make him 400hp with a 302 (late model designed for roller) easier and cheaper than I can make 500hp with the 390. But then he says he really wants a big block so I say, "fuck it then, let's go snatch a 460 out of the junk yard and just make stupid, frame-bending power". He gets all excited but then I have to tell him that will cost about the same as the 390 and we're right back to square one.
 
Oh, I should probably expand this little story.
My buddy here is originally from France, and he's kinda mechanically inclined, but I wouldn't exactly call him a mechanic. So every time we talk he gets all excited and wants to know how much power he can make. We start talking and I tell him I can probably make him a solid 500hp with the 390 if we go aluminum heads and intake and a nice roller cam. His eyes light up until he sees how much all that yummy horsepowery goodness costs. Then he's like (in my worst French accent), "Oh no, that's a lot more than I can spend". So I tell him I can make him 400hp with a 302 (late model designed for roller) easier and cheaper than I can make 500hp with the 390. But then he says he really wants a big block so I say, "fuck it then, let's go snatch a 460 out of the junk yard and just make stupid, frame-bending power". He gets all excited but then I have to tell him that will cost about the same as the 390 and we're right back to square one.

Sell him the 302 by emphasing on the $$ saved over a big block, for "pretty much the same result"
Frenchs are cheap.
 
just tell him that he needs to make the same mistakes that others have done before him.... build the cheap 302, then rip it out 6 month later and swap in the engine you wanted in the first place :D
 
just tell him that he needs to make the same mistakes that others have done before him.... build the cheap 302, then rip it out 6 month later and swap in the engine you wanted in the first place :D

Cheep 302, Bring in DJ Dep!!!##$$:shocking::clap:
 
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