High performance oil systems

Belgian1979vette

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I would like some info on the oil systems you use in your cars. This came up in a another thread of mine. So I would like to see what you guys are using and how you installed it. What I'm aiming at is :
- wet sump pans...baffling...
- dry sump
- accumulator incorporated etc.

Pics would be great.
 
There's also a hybrid system. It's much like what the LS7 uses. It's an in sump pump that has 2 sections. One scavenge and one pumping section. The scavenge section scavenges the pan and routes the oil to a remote tank (the hoses go through the side of the oil pan, you need the special pan for this setup) and then the oil is de-aerated in the tank, like an ordinary dry sump tank and from the bottom a feed line runs back to the pressure section (though oil pan wall again)

The system was made by barnes but has been discontinued for quite some time. It's a neat system for where an all out dry sump system is not possible.


My accumulator is here:
2480f09eb5d31f.jpg

It'not so much for oil pressure fluctuations, it provides lubrication to the turbos after engine shutdown.

Same on this 80 formula turbo:
24828b57440c85.jpg

This is the old barnes hybrid system:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Spri...yZ107063QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
That Barnes system is pretty neat. Sad that it isn't available anymore. But placement of the tank (large) still remains a problem

Thanks for that picture TT. The accumulator is pretty large.

Do you have some pictures of your dry sump setup ?
 
I think Barnes still sells the pans and service parts for the pump....basically (like Marck said) it`s a two stage in the pan dry sump system, I had one didn`t much care for it, sold it off and went three stage Weaver...that got replaced by a four stage Stock Car Products pump (basically a Weaver copy) & all larger lines. The more oil you can scavenge from the motor the less parasitic drag you have on your rotating assy, freeing up some horsepower, I have seen guys with big $ pumps suck so much oil out of the motor they had to install squirters in the pan to squirt oil on the piston pins...now your talking some real money. Years ago we ran mostly -10 lines then -12 and now only one -10 from the valley to the scavenge side of the pump the rest are all -12 with the return to the tank a -16, I have seen some return lines as big as -20...imagine what those hose ends cost? There is (or was) a swing pickup for use with a trap door road race pan developed by Smokey Yunick (I think)....but if your doing any type of road racing and value your motor you will go dry sump.
redvetracr
 
The dry sump pump won't fit without notching the frame! I don't have any pics here showing the pump installed. The only pic I have is of the tank

24819ba1b17d72.jpg

Be aware that although the pump is expensive, with just the pump you're not even halfway the expenses. The lines will run up the cost considerably, as will the tank and the pan.


The accumulator is pretty large, the one in the firebird is half the size.
 
I think Barnes still sells the pans and service parts for the pump....basically (like Marck said) it`s a two stage in the pan dry sump system, I had one didn`t much care for it, sold it off and went three stage Weaver...that got replaced by a four stage Stock Car Products pump (basically a Weaver copy) & all larger lines. The more oil you can scavenge from the motor the less parasitic drag you have on your rotating assy, freeing up some horsepower, I have seen guys with big $ pumps suck so much oil out of the motor they had to install squirters in the pan to squirt oil on the piston pins...now your talking some real money. Years ago we ran mostly -10 lines then -12 and now only one -10 from the valley to the scavenge side of the pump the rest are all -12 with the return to the tank a -16, I have seen some return lines as big as -20...imagine what those hose ends cost? There is (or was) a swing pickup for use with a trap door road race pan developed by Smokey Yunick (I think)....but if your doing any type of road racing and value your motor you will go dry sump.
redvetracr

I think the service parts are only for the later models, if you buy an early pump you're SOL.

If you need pistons squirters you can get a VERY nice drilling fixture from Bo Laws that uses threaded jets. Commonly used for piston cooling.

Yes, smokey had that swinging pickup on a pump, he himself didn't care much for it either.

As for hose end pricing, those 2 120 deg. -16 an hose ends on my tank..they cost around 75$ a piece, there's another one on the pump return (-16 scavenge manifold) and I have a -16 feed from the bottom of the tank and I ujsed a -16 to -12 bulkhead to reduce it to the pumps -12 pressure feed. That way there'll always be plenty of oil at hand.

The tank return on mine is -20 but I reduced it to -16 (a -20 to -16 reducer is right around 60$ too)
 
MY BB is a wet sump- there is a baffle at the front of the deep part of the sump, with a hinged door to allow the front to drainback, and a circular baffle that's 1/4 off the floor centered in the backend of the pan- the pickup sets down in that. Stock GM parts too.
 
I have seen guys with big $ pumps suck so much oil out of the motor they had to install squirters in the pan to squirt oil on the piston pins...now your talking some real money.

i thought that was a function of rod side clearance. Open up the side clearance and it'll sling more oil on the underside of the piston.

What are squirters.
 
If I remember correctly they are drilled bores towards the main oiling galleys in the webs with a smaller orifice of some sort mounted in them that squirt oil directly at the bottom of the piston.
Was mainly used in turbocharged applications I believe.

Just a question. My pan has baffling that prevents the oil from coming up from the deep sump of the pan. This isn't enough apparently ?
 
The dry sump pump won't fit without notching the frame! I don't have any pics here showing the pump installed. The only pic I have is of the tank

Be aware that although the pump is expensive, with just the pump you're not even halfway the expenses. The lines will run up the cost considerably, as will the tank and the pan.


The accumulator is pretty large, the one in the firebird is half the size.


That notching is something that I wouldn't like to do, since my frame is already powder coated. Then it still leaves the big tank to tackle.

Yes, they are very expensive in parts. My guess is that a complete setup will run close to 3000 $ which is a big load of money.

The accumulator looks like a fine idea, except for the fact that it drains when you shut off the engine. So it first must fill up before the engine can reach its normal pressure. I think this is not so good either or i would have to mount that big thing somewhere in the passenger compartment.

Hmm
 
I've had one of Moroso's 5-gate RR pans on a couple of BB's in my SA, and have suffered loss of prime on numerous occasions during long corners. Yes, it has been bottomed a couple of times, but was removed, inspected and repaired as necessary each time, so hanging gates should not have been the problem. The particular pan I have has been since discontinued, but I don't know if that means my problem was common or they just didn't sell enough units.

As I mentioned elsewhere when this topic arose, I'm changing to a different pan (Moroso #20403) with integral scraper and tray, and installing an accumulator (2qt.) in one last ditch effort to solve the issue before going dry sump. My idea is that the accumulator solenoid will be wired to allow pressure to be retained on shut down and to release that pressure to pre-lube before start up. Thoughts welcome...

For turning system on and off... http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/333/Accusump2

For controlling at what pressure system functions, should you like... http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=1245
 
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I use a moroso RR five door pan. Canton three qt Accusump. the 5 door still cannot control the oil. The accusump is dumping on long sweepers, which gives me 45 to 60 seconds of back up oil.

My accusump has a manual valve so I can cut it off while the engine is running. Holding the oil pressure in the tank until I restart teh engine. Release the valve, with engine not running and the pressure in the tank is released back to your engine right before you hit the start button.
 
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Wouldn't that oil tank heat your passenger compartment to much TT ?

Wonder if there would be smaller tanks and if the pump could be mounted at the top of the engine instead.
 
The accumulator looks like a fine idea, except for the fact that it drains when you shut off the engine.

Not if you get the optional electic valve, that will allow you to switch the line shut before shutting the engine down, you can then use it as a pre oiler on startup (you can also do that with the manual valve but it would mean you had to open the hood every time and flip the lever)
 
Wouldn't that oil tank heat your passenger compartment to much TT ?

Wonder if there would be smaller tanks and if the pump could be mounted at the top of the engine instead.

I'm going to put a wall behind the seats with a small window to separate the passenger compartment from the rear. Like this:

2482a05c917be7.jpg

The tank can be bought smaller. The pump can't be mounted a whole lot higher because of priming issues, it needs to be block mounted.
 
I use a moroso RR five door pan. Canton three qt Accusump. the 5 door still cannot control the oil. The accusump is dumping on long sweepers, which gives me 45 to 60 seconds of back up oil.

My accusump has a manual valve so I can cut it off while the engine is running. Holding the oil pressure in the tank until I restart teh engine. Release the valve, with engine not running and the pressure in the tank is released back to your engine right before you hit the start button.

Sounds like you're doing just fine with the 5-gate with a large accumulator there. My problem was occuring so frequently that I began carrying a timing light and battery powered drill so I could re-prime roadside rather than going thru the hassles of trailering it home. What type of windage control have you in there? Maybe I just need to add a modern uni-directional screen (I mistakenly called it a tray earlier) from Stef's, stick with the old pan and scraper, and rely on the accumulator...
 
i thought that was a function of rod side clearance. Open up the side clearance and it'll sling more oil on the underside of the piston.

What are squirters.

03A_large.jpg


I know dodge nascar engines run them
 
I guess that from what I read from racers replies an accumulator with a electronic valve works fine on hp street use. I found out Canton sells some nice combo's.

Maybe I could mount them horizontally somewhere up front near my cooler.
 
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