Megasquirt III

Fuelie74

Fuelie74

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
770
Location
Monroe, WI
It's finally out! This is definitely on my short list to buy. Seems they have addressed most of the complaints and downsides with the new system. $640 for an assembled MSIIIX that will do sequential port injection and run coil on plug. Plus this will work with a USB port. Looks like I have found a winter project.

* VE and ignition tables are now both 16 x 16
* 0.1% steps on VE table, 0.1 degree steps on ignition table
* Socket for an onboard SD card - no laptop required for data logging (SD Card not included)
* Built in USB port
* GM stepper IAC control
* Closed loop idle and mixture control
* CANBus communications for interface with GPIO Board, IO Extender, or other devices
* Staged injection
* Native support for many different OEM trigger pattern
* 8 channels sequential fuel control
* 8 channel sequential ignition control
* Individual fuel and spark trim for cylinder by cylinder tuning
* 2 and 3 channel PWM IAC control
* 2 stage nitrous controller
* Table switching for multi-fuel engines
* 2 step launch control
 
Fuelie74 said:
It's finally out! This is definitely on my short list to buy. Seems they have addressed most of the complaints and downsides with the new system. $640 for an assembled MSIIIX that will do sequential port injection and run coil on plug. Plus this will work with a USB port. Looks like I have found a winter project.

* VE and ignition tables are now both 16 x 16
* 0.1% steps on VE table, 0.1 degree steps on ignition table
* Socket for an onboard SD card - no laptop required for data logging (SD Card not included)
* Built in USB port
* GM stepper IAC control
* Closed loop idle and mixture control
* CANBus communications for interface with GPIO Board, IO Extender, or other devices
* Staged injection
* Native support for many different OEM trigger pattern
* 8 channels sequential fuel control
* 8 channel sequential ignition control
* Individual fuel and spark trim for cylinder by cylinder tuning
* 2 and 3 channel PWM IAC control
* 2 stage nitrous controller
* Table switching for multi-fuel engines
* 2 step launch control
Click to expand...

You block needs an intirely different ignition setup and do away with the camshaft driven HEI....not so easy as it might seem, unless you already go with a newer style block.
 
I am looking askance at my L98 type HEI, and wondering about that signal stability....so am thinking of maybe doing my own crank trigger setup...need take the pulley to get some holes cut in it, and then mount a FORD CPS/CamPS pickup and run that to the HEI signal through a shielded cable...

I wonder about stability improvements....

:thumbs:
 
mrvette said:
I am looking askance at my L98 type HEI, and wondering about that signal stability....so am thinking of maybe doing my own crank trigger setup...need take the pulley to get some holes cut in it, and then mount a FORD CPS/CamPS pickup and run that to the HEI signal through a shielded cable...

I wonder about stability improvements....

:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Crank trigger doesn't have the necessary resolution...you need a 60-1 (not sure on that number) tooth wheel for that.
 
Belgian1979vette said:
mrvette said:
I am looking askance at my L98 type HEI, and wondering about that signal stability....so am thinking of maybe doing my own crank trigger setup...need take the pulley to get some holes cut in it, and then mount a FORD CPS/CamPS pickup and run that to the HEI signal through a shielded cable...

I wonder about stability improvements....

:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Crank trigger doesn't have the necessary resolution...you need a 60-1 (not sure on that number) tooth wheel for that.
Click to expand...

Not really sure just what that buys....figger the stock L98 HEI does the distribution/ to each cylinder in turn as it does now....

the trigger is done off the coil activated by front of the crank, and not through that timing chain and the length of the cam, with the oil pum dragging it down....

almost gotta be more accurate, the question I have is....does it make any practical difference other than a minor engineering exercise???:surrender:
 
I'm not really up on the Megasquirt. Does it require a crank trigger and coil on plug? Seems like an additional conversion hassle and expense.
 
BBShark said:
I'm not really up on the Megasquirt. Does it require a crank trigger and coil on plug? Seems like an additional conversion hassle and expense.
Click to expand...

By the information I have read a crank sensor isn't 100% necessary, but it is highly recommended. My plan is to use a vortec timing chain cover, reluctor wheel and sensor since I am running a roller block already. Kind of the price you pay for sequential port.

Coil on plug is only an option that you can add. My though is that it might be fun to play with once everything is up and running if I can score some free LS coil packs.
 
Belgian1979vette said:
Fuelie74 said:
It's finally out! This is definitely on my short list to buy. Seems they have addressed most of the complaints and downsides with the new system. $640 for an assembled MSIIIX that will do sequential port injection and run coil on plug. Plus this will work with a USB port. Looks like I have found a winter project.

* VE and ignition tables are now both 16 x 16
* 0.1% steps on VE table, 0.1 degree steps on ignition table
* Socket for an onboard SD card - no laptop required for data logging (SD Card not included)
* Built in USB port
* GM stepper IAC control
* Closed loop idle and mixture control
* CANBus communications for interface with GPIO Board, IO Extender, or other devices
* Staged injection
* Native support for many different OEM trigger pattern
* 8 channels sequential fuel control
* 8 channel sequential ignition control
* Individual fuel and spark trim for cylinder by cylinder tuning
* 2 and 3 channel PWM IAC control
* 2 stage nitrous controller
* Table switching for multi-fuel engines
* 2 step launch control
Click to expand...

You block needs an intirely different ignition setup and do away with the camshaft driven HEI....not so easy as it might seem, unless you already go with a newer style block.
Click to expand...

Guys over on thirdgen are doing a coil on plug sequential port injection set up on a sbc gen1 using a heavily reprogrammed GM 411 computer, so it can be done. Is it worth it to run Coil on plug? Probably not, but it can handle running an LS down the road if you decide to swap engines!
 
mrvette said:
I am looking askance at my L98 type HEI, and wondering about that signal stability....so am thinking of maybe doing my own crank trigger setup...need take the pulley to get some holes cut in it, and then mount a FORD CPS/CamPS pickup and run that to the HEI signal through a shielded cable...

I wonder about stability improvements....

:thumbs:
Click to expand...

I know we have talked about this before and I still don't know why you are shying away from a Vortec crank sensor since its basically a junk yard ready bolt on swap.
 
Belgian1979vette said:
mrvette said:
I am looking askance at my L98 type HEI, and wondering about that signal stability....so am thinking of maybe doing my own crank trigger setup...need take the pulley to get some holes cut in it, and then mount a FORD CPS/CamPS pickup and run that to the HEI signal through a shielded cable...

I wonder about stability improvements....

:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Crank trigger doesn't have the necessary resolution...you need a 60-1 (not sure on that number) tooth wheel for that.
Click to expand...

I believe this is more what Gene is looking for except for the price.
http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/58x.aspx
 
Yep that's it.

Me too, i seriously doubt that sequential will do much in terms of performance. If you consider the open time of the injectors and the limited time you have when the valve is open (certainly at higher rpm's) I'm pretty much convinced that your injector will be spraying longer than the actual opening time of the valve anyway, since it is simply impossible with a reasonable accurate size injector to get the required amount of fuel in the motor in that limited time...and if you use a very big injector, that's going to hurt low rpm performance and accuracy.

If they would be able to produce something like ion-sensing to establish wether or not a certain cilinder is producing knock and thus controlling the ignition of that one cilinder individually...that could be worth something performance wise.
 
I have a batch fire speed density system programmed like a hotrod "91 F body, for some time now, I have seen the idle timing have a hell of a jitter to it, not steady on as it was when first set up.....it's a total roller motor, so I do wonder about that chain stretch, even being a double roller Cloys...

I suspect a lot of stretch over the last dozen years....but IF, I went to a crank trigger, just 4 holes and that's it....simple change....I can deal with THAT, but introducing a whole new computer and doing some 60 points on a crank wheel, I seriously fail to see how that is going to improve a damn thing over what my thoughts are...the L98 dizzy would still talk to the computer, just the trigger is no longer on that star wheel, thus eliminating chain stretch and inaccuracies from any mechanical crap....

I can see coil on plug as being a minor improvement, but without individual O2 sensors, one for each cylinder.....how can the computer really control individual cylinders??

I understand fuel/air suspension time as being a point, but when it's only .2 seconds at 600 rpm idle speed....I fail to see it as significant....
so batch fire it is, unless someone can point to a significant power/economy increase....:surrender:
 
Belgian1979vette said:
The assumption of sequential being better is mainly aimed at environmental issues. IMO you will gain not much.
Click to expand...

Your right it won't do much for performance. My main reasons for wanting it are as followed.
  1. Fuel economy because I drive this car a lot
  2. Because Mustangs have it and I can't be one upped from my Mustang buddies
  3. I want it
I mean really I am upgrading anyways, so my thought is I might as well make the most of it.
 
I guess the nice thing is if you're not interested in sequential port injection or coil on plug then you can order it without those features and save $90. The if you change your mind later you can buy the $90 card and upgrade.
 
mrvette said:
Belgian1979vette said:
mrvette said:
I am looking askance at my L98 type HEI, and wondering about that signal stability....so am thinking of maybe doing my own crank trigger setup...need take the pulley to get some holes cut in it, and then mount a FORD CPS/CamPS pickup and run that to the HEI signal through a shielded cable...

I wonder about stability improvements....

:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Crank trigger doesn't have the necessary resolution...you need a 60-1 (not sure on that number) tooth wheel for that.
Click to expand...

Not really sure just what that buys....figger the stock L98 HEI does the distribution/ to each cylinder in turn as it does now....

the trigger is done off the coil activated by front of the crank, and not through that timing chain and the length of the cam, with the oil pum dragging it down....

almost gotta be more accurate, the question I have is....does it make any practical difference other than a minor engineering exercise???:surrender:
Click to expand...

The 58X wheel (60-2) is not about more accuracy steady state, but rather during changes in RPM. With a 4 magnet trigger it takes 90 degrees of crank rotation before the ecu is updated with any changes in engine speed. This happens every 4 degrees with a 60 tooth wheel. The benefit is quicker responses in fuel, spark, enrichment, idle control, etc.

Rob
 
MrForce said:
mrvette said:
Belgian1979vette said:
mrvette said:
I am looking askance at my L98 type HEI, and wondering about that signal stability....so am thinking of maybe doing my own crank trigger setup...need take the pulley to get some holes cut in it, and then mount a FORD CPS/CamPS pickup and run that to the HEI signal through a shielded cable...

I wonder about stability improvements....

:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Crank trigger doesn't have the necessary resolution...you need a 60-1 (not sure on that number) tooth wheel for that.
Click to expand...

Not really sure just what that buys....figger the stock L98 HEI does the distribution/ to each cylinder in turn as it does now....

the trigger is done off the coil activated by front of the crank, and not through that timing chain and the length of the cam, with the oil pum dragging it down....

almost gotta be more accurate, the question I have is....does it make any practical difference other than a minor engineering exercise???:surrender:
Click to expand...

The 58X wheel (60-2) is not about more accuracy steady state, but rather during changes in RPM. With a 4 magnet trigger it takes 90 degrees of crank rotation before the ecu is updated with any changes in engine speed. This happens every 4 degrees with a 60 tooth wheel. The benefit is quicker responses in fuel, spark, enrichment, idle control, etc.

Rob
Click to expand...

OK, understandable, what affect does that have on overall daily operation and fuel economy?? I would imagine it's gotta help some, but any idea how much??
 
MrForce said:
mrvette said:
Belgian1979vette said:
mrvette said:
I am looking askance at my L98 type HEI, and wondering about that signal stability....so am thinking of maybe doing my own crank trigger setup...need take the pulley to get some holes cut in it, and then mount a FORD CPS/CamPS pickup and run that to the HEI signal through a shielded cable...

I wonder about stability improvements....

:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Crank trigger doesn't have the necessary resolution...you need a 60-1 (not sure on that number) tooth wheel for that.
Click to expand...

Not really sure just what that buys....figger the stock L98 HEI does the distribution/ to each cylinder in turn as it does now....

the trigger is done off the coil activated by front of the crank, and not through that timing chain and the length of the cam, with the oil pum dragging it down....

almost gotta be more accurate, the question I have is....does it make any practical difference other than a minor engineering exercise???:surrender:
Click to expand...

The 58X wheel (60-2) is not about more accuracy steady state, but rather during changes in RPM. With a 4 magnet trigger it takes 90 degrees of crank rotation before the ecu is updated with any changes in engine speed. This happens every 4 degrees with a 60 tooth wheel. The benefit is quicker responses in fuel, spark, enrichment, idle control, etc.

Rob
Click to expand...
Yep...It's all about resolution. IIRC, the Lt-1 opti-spark has 360 individual high-resolution optical shutters, in addition to the 4 low-res. shutters.
 
big_G said:
MrForce said:
mrvette said:
Belgian1979vette said:
mrvette said:
I am looking askance at my L98 type HEI, and wondering about that signal stability....so am thinking of maybe doing my own crank trigger setup...need take the pulley to get some holes cut in it, and then mount a FORD CPS/CamPS pickup and run that to the HEI signal through a shielded cable...

I wonder about stability improvements....

:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Crank trigger doesn't have the necessary resolution...you need a 60-1 (not sure on that number) tooth wheel for that.
Click to expand...

Not really sure just what that buys....figger the stock L98 HEI does the distribution/ to each cylinder in turn as it does now....

the trigger is done off the coil activated by front of the crank, and not through that timing chain and the length of the cam, with the oil pum dragging it down....

almost gotta be more accurate, the question I have is....does it make any practical difference other than a minor engineering exercise???:surrender:
Click to expand...

The 58X wheel (60-2) is not about more accuracy steady state, but rather during changes in RPM. With a 4 magnet trigger it takes 90 degrees of crank rotation before the ecu is updated with any changes in engine speed. This happens every 4 degrees with a 60 tooth wheel. The benefit is quicker responses in fuel, spark, enrichment, idle control, etc.

Rob
Click to expand...
Yep...It's all about resolution. IIRC, the Lt-1 opti-spark has 360 individual high-resolution optical shutters, in addition to the 4 low-res. shutters.
Click to expand...

Which all sound fine for electronics, great....now a factual question about engine building.....just how fine are the tolerances on TDC when we take in all the stackup for crank, piston, bearing, rod variations??

then the typical cam drive situation....all the harmonics on the lifters on those 16 rollers on the bump stick.....then the vaiations in lift and other stackup....

I would think all that mechanical crap would FAR exceed a far simpler setup, like my silly 4 spots on a crank pulley....

:fishing::fishing::goodevil:
 
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