Ignition Problem Has Me Stumped! HELP!!!

SmokeyVette

Adrenaline Junkie
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
205
Location
Leveldirt TX (Levelland)
Here's my problem:

Recently (less than a month ago) I installed an MSD Streetfire HEI Distributor. That has been the only mod that I've done in a LONG time. I set the timing and then drove the car DAILY for about two weeks. I figured I'd give the car a rest and do some minor tweaking to the carb and other such items for the big burnout contest that was this past weekend. Everything went smoothly but I didn't drive the car for the past week. This past weekend I put the car in the big burnout contest that we have every year, I drove it a couple of days in advance to make sure that everything worked fine and it did. During the burnout I ran her to 6500 in first gear, 6000 in second and 5500 in third, I thought real seriously about going into fourth but I didn't.

While doing that I shredded the alternator belt, I parked the car after all was said and done and my temp. gauge never got above 240 (steel shim head gaskets, so we're good there).

I trailered the car home because I didn't feel like messing with it after the festivities away from my tools and I was busy picking up my 1st place trophy. Later that night I changed the belt and took her out for a victory drive.

It was on that drive, after she got good and warmed up, that she began to stumble and actually died on me while going down the road and on the gas on a few occasions. She fired right back up by just slipping her into neutral and hitting the key, but I decided to head home.

On the way home she died and DIDN'T fire right back up, thank God that I had anticipated this and had enough speed to coast the extra half mile and the full length of my rather long driveway. She never fired back up that night, that was Saturday.

Today (Wednesday) I finally got time to check her out so I walked out there and hit the key just to see what would happen, she fired right up and idled there for 25 minutes, then she died. I was able to get her to fire again and I tried revving her, she died at 3500 RPM.

Slowly piece-by-piece I replaced components on the MSD HEI starting with the ignition module with a known good one, then I moved on to the coil, then the little condensor unit and finally, the whole damn distributor cap.

Each time I'd replace a component she'd fire up but die shortly after no matter whether I was in the gas or not. I know that I'm getting fuel, and it's dying like I'm just turning the key back off.

A couple of times I noticed that after a couple of minutes the buzzer would start buzzing all-of-the-sudden like I had just turned on the key.

So what say ye? Is it something in the ignition system itself or does it sound like the actual ignition switch?
 
Lars turned me on to the street fire dizzy, and it basically is identical to the GM unit. They are quite reasonable in cost. The componets interchange with GM pieces quite well. The shortfall is the ignition module, which is not quite as good as the GM unit.
That being said, if you replaced the module with a known good GM unit, I would say the fault lies elsewhere.
I ASSUME you placed the heat sink compound between the module and the mounting plate.
I also ASSUME you used a good known 12v source, although Mike contends it will adjust to 6-16volts, and I believe him as Gospel.
Try an alternate source such as the yellow wiper motor wire. It works fine for your application. 12v keyed on source of adequate amperage.
Let us know.
 
Lars turned me on to the street fire dizzy, and it basically is identical to the GM unit. They are quite reasonable in cost. The componets interchange with GM pieces quite well. The shortfall is the ignition module, which is not quite as good as the GM unit.
That being said, if you replaced the module with a known good GM unit, I would say the fault lies elsewhere.
I ASSUME you placed the heat sink compound between the module and the mounting plate.
I also ASSUME you used a good known 12v source, although Mike contends it will adjust to 6-16volts, and I believe him as Gospel.
Try an alternate source such as the yellow wiper motor wire. It works fine for your application. 12v keyed on source of adequate amperage.
Let us know.

I didn't build or open the dizzy when I got it, I just installed it, but it DOES have heat-sink compound between the ignition module and the pad (but I'm debating on whether or not to put down some silver heat sink compound). I just used the stock HEI ignition source. I'll rig up a jumper and try the wiper motor hot-wire and see what happens. Thanks!:thumbs:
 
Oooh, I just remembered something that might matter, Friday night, the night before all of this happened, I lost my low beams on my headlights. All I had was brights and the lows would work sporadically.

Related???
 
Oooh, I just remembered something that might matter, Friday night, the night before all of this happened, I lost my low beams on my headlights. All I had was brights and the lows would work sporadically.

Related???

I would bet $20 on it.
 
So where should I go from here?

I've been speaking with some fellows who also run the same dizzy and they all said that they all had problems just like I'm describing and it turned out to be the magnetic pick-up unit that was at fault. What do you think?
 
Oooh, I just remembered something that might matter, Friday night, the night before all of this happened, I lost my low beams on my headlights. All I had was brights and the lows would work sporadically.

Related???

I would bet $20 on it.

Firewall plug?? had one mess up on another car, years ago....

yet another reason I hard wired my '72 years ago.....long as it was naked as a jaybird, it was a weeks work..PIA, but whileimatits took over....

:quote:
 
So where should I go from here?

I've been speaking with some fellows who also run the same dizzy and they all said that they all had problems just like I'm describing and it turned out to be the magnetic pick-up unit that was at fault. What do you think?

Intermittent faults are the hardest to troubleshoot. I am still leaning towards the other issue. Even if unrelated, it should be fixed. What year is it?
We should have the schematic in our download section. Start with the related grounds, and don't rule out a battery over 4 years old, or a bad alternator/diode fault.
 
The mag pickup is pretty easy to check- unplug it from the module and connect a meter across the 2 wires. Should have good continuity thru the pickup, then move the wires around to make sure they are not broken. Then check with one meter lead to a wire from the pickup and the other lead to a good ground. Should stay open all the time.
 
So where should I go from here?

I've been speaking with some fellows who also run the same dizzy and they all said that they all had problems just like I'm describing and it turned out to be the magnetic pick-up unit that was at fault. What do you think?

Intermittent faults are the hardest to troubleshoot. I am still leaning towards the other issue. Even if unrelated, it should be fixed. What year is it?
We should have the schematic in our download section. Start with the related grounds, and don't rule out a battery over 4 years old, or a bad alternator/diode fault.

Grounds all seem to be good, the battery is just a few months old, like literally replaced in April.

I DID notice tonight that the alternator wasn't charging as much as normal but it was still charging at around 14 volts.

It's a '77 and it's been a West Texas car all of it's life which means dry and hardly any rust.

I plan on replacing the turn signal switch which is probably the likely fault with the high to low beams, I've kinda had this problem before with the lights and I SHOULD HAVE replaced the turn signal switch with an new unit but I decided to cheap-out and I learned my lesson.

I really don't think it's the ignition switch because nothing else goes off when the engine dies, I'd figure that if it were a problem with the ignition switch, then everything would die right?
 
The T/S switch and the low-high beams have one common factor- the lever. 2 different switches and in different locations. The dimmer switch is on the column down below the dash next to the ignition switch. Don't waste cash on the wrong part!
 
Hook a 12volt lamp to the HEI 12v input and ground. Go for a drive. If the lamp goes out when you stall, you'll know. If it doesn't, it's the dizzy.
 
So where should I go from here?

I've been speaking with some fellows who also run the same dizzy and they all said that they all had problems just like I'm describing and it turned out to be the magnetic pick-up unit that was at fault. What do you think?

I had the same problem, intermittent no start. I finally replaced the module and all has been well for several weeks now.
 
So where should I go from here?

I've been speaking with some fellows who also run the same dizzy and they all said that they all had problems just like I'm describing and it turned out to be the magnetic pick-up unit that was at fault. What do you think?

Intermittent faults are the hardest to troubleshoot. I am still leaning towards the other issue. Even if unrelated, it should be fixed. What year is it?
We should have the schematic in our download section. Start with the related grounds, and don't rule out a battery over 4 years old, or a bad alternator/diode fault.

Grounds all seem to be good, the battery is just a few months old, like literally replaced in April.

I DID notice tonight that the alternator wasn't charging as much as normal but it was still charging at around 14 volts.

It's a '77 and it's been a West Texas car all of it's life which means dry and hardly any rust.

I plan on replacing the turn signal switch which is probably the likely fault with the high to low beams, I've kinda had this problem before with the lights and I SHOULD HAVE replaced the turn signal switch with an new unit but I decided to cheap-out and I learned my lesson.

I really don't think it's the ignition switch because nothing else goes off when the engine dies, I'd figure that if it were a problem with the ignition switch, then everything would die right?


Yes. Anything related to the switch would turn off if the switch were at fault.
 
Wrap yer head around this:

Yesterday I took another look at her, pumped the gas, hit the key, she fired right up.

Since I don't have a choke I was holding her at about 1200 RPM when she suddenly died. She would NOT fire back up.

At that time I noticed that I had no power to the windows nor to the center console gauge unit. The fan motor would still blow, wipers would work and parking lamps would come on along with the actual starter engaging. It just wouldn't fire.

I temporarily ran a constant hot to the dizzy. She fired and got into the shop, it was really weird turning off the key and the engine continuing to run until I pulled the wire from the dizzy.

I think it finally reared it's ugly head for good this time.

My only question is, what is it?

:huh2::rofl:
 
Sounds like the alternator to me... you said that you shredded the alt belt, and that it hasn't been charging like it should. That coupled with the headlight issues, the key chime and other electrical gremlins, sound like an issue with the alt and/or battery.

I had all kinds of weirdness with my truck when the ALT was dying on me.

Shawn
 
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