EFI conversions and fuel lines....

mrvette

Phantom of the Opera
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Mar 24, 2008
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Location
NE Florida
As one of the tests I did last spring, I put the regulator in the rear, which did not improve operation any, so I put it back up front on the engine....it's a LT1 manifold modded up and on a L98 style engine....call it a camed up ZZ4.....

so the question is, what diff does it make by putting the reg in the rear, and deadheading the forward line.....

BTW, using the present/stock return line as a vac line to the rear regulator....

what say you guys???

another thing, it's cleans up some of the crap in the engine compartment....

:drink:
 
As long as you are taking the fuel pressure reading from the return rail up close to the intake, I don't see how the regulator position makes a difference.
 
As long as you are taking the fuel pressure reading from the return rail up close to the intake, I don't see how the regulator position makes a difference.

I don't either, so I am going to re arrange a bunch of stuff this week, maybe Tues....

:beer:
 
As long as you are taking the fuel pressure reading from the return rail up close to the intake, I don't see how the regulator position makes a difference.

I don't either, so I am going to re arrange a bunch of stuff this week, maybe Tues....

:beer:

Let me know, we're doing fuel line, fuel fittings, pumps, and regulators. Dressing up the website as we speak. Need about 2 weeks for completion but can get you what you need.
 
I think the factory only does it at the rail so they can use a one parts fits all approach.
 
This is a difficult question to answer without knowing all the details of the fuel system, but generally speaking it is always better to locate any regulator, fuel, voltage, etc. as close to the point you are trying to regulate as possible. Think of it this way, the line length, diameter, fuel filter restrictions, etc act as a resistor to the flow of fuel. That fuel resistance can result in a transient drop in fuel pressure during larger fuel flow demands. Again, depending on your application, these transients may be negligible, but in extreme performance applications they would result in variations in injector fuel delivery. To many system variables to make a definitive statement here, but I recommend keeping it up front where fuel pressure regulation is needed.

Bullshark
 
As one of the tests I did last spring, I put the regulator in the rear, which did not improve operation any, so I put it back up front on the engine....it's a LT1 manifold modded up and on a L98 style engine....call it a camed up ZZ4.....

so the question is, what diff does it make by putting the reg in the rear, and deadheading the forward line.....
BTW, using the present/stock return line as a vac line to the rear regulator....

what say you guys???

another thing, it's cleans up some of the crap in the engine compartment....

:drink:

I don't know what you mean by that, but the regulator should be after the injectors in the loop, thus adjusting the pressure on the pump/injector side by opening and closing the return line fuel flow.

Suppose it doesn't matter much if the ecm/injectors can handle a wide enough range for pressure spikes/peaks.
 
Suppose it doesn't matter much if the ecm/injectors can handle a wide enough range for pressure spikes/peaks.

True, but could be a big "if". Most fuel pressure regulators I am familiar with, like the ones on my Holley 950 and the GM RamJet sense MAP and vary the fuel pressure slightly (~5psi) to accommodate for the difference in manifold pressure at the injector output during high load conditions. Running a vacuum line all the way to the back doesn't seem practical to me. Can't help but believe that would introduce lag in the control system.

Bullshark
 
As one of the tests I did last spring, I put the regulator in the rear, which did not improve operation any, so I put it back up front on the engine....it's a LT1 manifold modded up and on a L98 style engine....call it a camed up ZZ4.....

so the question is, what diff does it make by putting the reg in the rear, and deadheading the forward line.....
BTW, using the present/stock return line as a vac line to the rear regulator....

what say you guys???

another thing, it's cleans up some of the crap in the engine compartment....

:drink:

I don't know what you mean by that, but the regulator should be after the injectors in the loop, thus adjusting the pressure on the pump/injector side by opening and closing the return line fuel flow.

Suppose it doesn't matter much if the ecm/injectors can handle a wide enough range for pressure spikes/peaks.

Well, there we go, interesting in that I can feel some pulsing on the return and feed hoses....not surprised, particularly, but it makes me wonder....

at high speeds it's smooth and pulls good, but at idle....only fix is to put on steel lines, as that Lt1 mani has the L98 regulator set on the pass side, with a rubber FI hose rated at 250 psi in RED leading to it from the stock location of a LT1 reg, at end of the line....

By dead head, I meant no return lines to the tank from engine, fuel going one way, and the present return line would be the new vac line for the reg now in the rear, IF I was to do this change out....

another way would be to just clean up the install a bit.... but I"d rather drive the car.....:shocking::rofl::tomato:

edit...brings to mind another observation....I had a oil pressure gauge I would hook up to the fuel line, pressure is pressure, right?? so when hooked up solidly, as in NO HOSE, just a brass fitting, it would jump all over the joint with the pulsing injectors....figgers, but when it was on a length of a/c hose for monitor on the windshield while driving....it was steady....but that hose pulsed....

but every once in a while the engine is dead smooth, more often with Jsup's injectors in there than at any other time in recent history....but yet, the injectors that WERE in there are working FINE in a 318 Dodge van I was working on....nutz man, just nutz.....
 
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Suppose it doesn't matter much if the ecm/injectors can handle a wide enough range for pressure spikes/peaks.

True, but could be a big "if". Most fuel pressure regulators I am familiar with, like the ones on my Holley 950 and the GM RamJet sense MAP and vary the fuel pressure slightly (~5psi) to accommodate for the difference in manifold pressure at the injector output during high load conditions. Running a vacuum line all the way to the back doesn't seem practical to me. Can't help but believe that would introduce lag in the control system.

Bullshark

I totally agree with you. I'm not well versed on fi mods at all, but am very familiar with pressure regulators and have never experienced one for hydraulics, fuel or water that is very accurate without the return line.

Deadheading the pressure line to the front should be a problem for accurate pressures.
 
Suppose it doesn't matter much if the ecm/injectors can handle a wide enough range for pressure spikes/peaks.

True, but could be a big "if". Most fuel pressure regulators I am familiar with, like the ones on my Holley 950 and the GM RamJet sense MAP and vary the fuel pressure slightly (~5psi) to accommodate for the difference in manifold pressure at the injector output during high load conditions. Running a vacuum line all the way to the back doesn't seem practical to me. Can't help but believe that would introduce lag in the control system.

Bullshark

I totally agree with you. I'm not well versed on fi mods at all, but am very familiar with pressure regulators and have never experienced one for hydraulics, fuel or water that is very accurate without the return line.

Deadheading the pressure line to the front should be a problem for accurate pressures.

I hear you, and that thought was on my mind with the gas/idle issue....but I saw no difference in performance and decided to try it, because I heard the C5+ used a system with the reg in back near the tank....
but I put it back up front just to cover the base long as I had that shitty idle all the time...
 
because I heard the C5+ used a system with the reg in back near the tank....
..

Umm I did not know that..... So far, I rarely open the hood on my wife's C5 grocery getter. :D I guess that day is coming.:amused: Wonder how they designed the system to accommodate the regulation challenges?

Bullshark
 
This is a difficult question to answer without knowing all the details of the fuel system, but generally speaking it is always better to locate any regulator, fuel, voltage, etc. as close to the point you are trying to regulate as possible.
Bullshark

I don't know what you mean by that, but the regulator should be after the injectors in the loop, thus adjusting the pressure on the pump/injector side by opening and closing the return line fuel flow.

Suppose it doesn't matter much if the ecm/injectors can handle a wide enough range for pressure spikes/peaks.

:withstupid: Don't know why you would want to locate the regulator in the rear. How would you adjust it? Lay on your back with the engine running? ;) Put the regulator as close to the fuel rails as possible. Most regulators require a return line to be as efficient as possible.
 
This is a difficult question to answer without knowing all the details of the fuel system, but generally speaking it is always better to locate any regulator, fuel, voltage, etc. as close to the point you are trying to regulate as possible.
Bullshark

I don't know what you mean by that, but the regulator should be after the injectors in the loop, thus adjusting the pressure on the pump/injector side by opening and closing the return line fuel flow.

Suppose it doesn't matter much if the ecm/injectors can handle a wide enough range for pressure spikes/peaks.

:withstupid: Don't know why you would want to locate the regulator in the rear. How would you adjust it? Lay on your back with the engine running? ;) Put the regulator as close to the fuel rails as possible. Most regulators require a return line to be as efficient as possible.

It is a L98 regulator, hooked to a modified LT1 intake on my L98 engine.....
got tired of the L98/TPI setup, reading about modded up LT1 intakes on the net, so decided to try it almost 2 years ago...took a while, but it works fine on first install....

ANYway, the reg went in the rear and I used Aeroquip steel lined fuel hose for the front feed line, blocking the returns entirely....used the return line for the vac signal.....and....

it ran like total DAWG SHIT, idled fine, started easy, WOT was good, but that tip in driving was too much signal lag from vac drop to fuel pressure change....so back up front it went....

but here is what is interesting....from the git go, on the very first install of a TPI on this car I have been using Earls rubber red marked he pressure fuel line hose....never thought much about it one way or another....remember the TPI has long steel tubes from both the input and return lines to the hoses to the frame lines....

so I just used same hose for the LT1 manifold install,

but I noticed the hose pulsed with the injector banks firing....never paid any nevermind to that before...never noticed it....

anyway, this last hookup, reg back up front as normal, I used the steel lined Aeroquip hose for both the rail to the fuel line, pump in rear, from the rail to the regulator, and then back to the return is the old Erols rubber hose....

the pulsing on the hose is gone, feel almost nothing....

and the engine is smoother and more consistent.....for about ten days + now....

seems my rough idle problems were due to a multiplicity of problems.....

water in tank, still unknown how, just was.....which messed up the injectors, new ones from Jsup straightened out a LOT of it....
now the fuel lines, and it's better yet....

God damn sensitive bastard, friggin car is female, no wonder I like riding it so much.....:devil:
 
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