studs vs. bolts?

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clutchdust

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tell me why i should use head and main studs rather than just using bolts. i'm putting together a 4.3 for my little datsun track car and the difference in price between the two is half (or double, depending on how you look at it).
i'm not racing this to win money. it's just going to be a track car for me to take out 8 or 10 times a year and just have a good time. i want to do it on a budget, but i'd rather build this engine once.
 
Firm believer is studs.
Even used them in my dd tow van. Don't want to do that job twice.

Use ARP, even if just bolts, can't rely on lesser quality these days.
 
I used ARP bolts for the heads. If you plan on swapping heads in the future or disassemble the engine for inspection then get the studs, it's much better for the threads in the block, basically you install the studs with thread sealant/thread locker and then they stay there.... cleaning the deck surface is a little more difficult with these studs in the way....
 
I have built probably close to 100 street/race motors both sb & bb and I have never recommended studs. Bolts have a shoulder just under the head that helps keep everything centered...studs do not. If you have to pull the heads off with the motor in the car, bolts are great...it's not happening with studs. Now if you're John Force and you pull the heads after every run, that's another story. I have seen main caps 'walk' slightly with studs in high HP applications which ruins bearings. The 598ci bbc that I have in my personal race car has bolts everywhere...no studs. It makes close to 1000hp n/a and 1600 on 2 stages (when I used to run NOS). Last year, I built a 590hp 355ci drag motor for a guy on a tight budget with 2-bolt mains and reused the STOCK bolts on the mains and Pioneer $25 head bolts. Stock cast NF crank and stock 'X' rods w/ARP bolts. It has roughly 13.5:1 compression and a set of heavily ported Brodix T1's that the guy already had. This motor gets run weekly in a bracket points program and logged over 150 runs in 2008. It gets shifted at 7000 rpms and crosses the stripe at 7200 rpms in 1/8 mile racing.

Don't get me wrong. There's a time and a place to spend money on a motor. I do believe in good rod bolts (when using stock-type rods) and quality gaskets. But most of the motors that are being built for cars on forums like this are being over-killed by people who obviously have a hard time sleeping at night unless their street/stock motor has parts worthly of Pro-Mod racing. I just don't understand...
 
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Nobody said:
I have built probably close to 100 street/race motors both sb & bb and I have never recommended studs. Bolts have a shoulder just under the head that helps keep everything centered...studs do not. If you have to pull the heads off with the motor in the car, bolts are great...it's not happening with studs. Now if you're John Force and you pull the heads after every run, that's another story. I have seen main caps 'walk' slightly with studs in high HP applications which ruins bearings. The 598ci bbc that I have in my personal race car has bolts everywhere...no studs. It makes close to 1000hp n/a and 1600 on 2 stages (when I used to run NOS). Last year, I built a 590hp 355ci drag motor for a guy on a tight budget with 2-bolt mains and reused the STOCK bolts on the mains and Pioneer $25 head bolts. Stock cast NF crank and stock 'X' rods w/ARP bolts. It has roughly 13.5:1 compression and a set of heavily ported Brodix T1's that the guy already had. This motor gets run weekly in a bracket points program and logged over 150 runs in 2008. It gets shifted at 7000 rpms and crosses the stripe at 7200 rpms in 1/8 mile racing.

Don't get me wrong. There's a time and a place to spend money on a motor. I do believe in good rod bolts (when using stock-type rods) and quality gaskets. But most of the motors that are being built for cars on forums like this are being over-killed by people who obviously have a hard time sleeping at night unless their street/stock motor has parts worthly of Pro-Mod racing. I just don't understand...
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I agree, a little over 40 years ago, when racing Pontiacs, I wanted to go crazy and the old hand poncho owners told me flat out, Go spend your money and go slower....and pointed to many examples around the field....

I took their advice, and over the years have kept my engines reasonably stockish.....being a believer in 425 ft lbs out of 355 cu inches at idle, that is where the thing sets...gimmme instant torque NOW, let the HP settle itself some other time....the old 455 poncho engines got 550 ft lbs at idle too....
teach the tranny how to shift, and hear the drive shaft ring, and the tires squeel at every traffic light....:beer::shocking::pprrtt: that's what make a car fun to drive every day....:evil:
 
Never had a problem with oem cap bolts.

On heads, I like the studs.
For example, I have blown headgaskets twice on the engine in my van. Engine was rebuilt with all new parts. Last time I didn't catch it in time and it resulted in a cracket head. This was using oem YTT bolts.
Solution was to use ARP studs and Felpro "Severe Duty" gasket.
Pulled a trailer with car over 4500 miles this last summer without a hint of problems. Engine was pulling hard constantly.

Over the top? Maybe, but an extra 50 bucks for studs was cheap insurance. Consider being stranded with a blown gasket in a van with a car on a trailer attached, let alone down time. That would have been big $$$$ signs in some mechanic's eyes. Not something I could have repaired on the side of the road. It was a real pain in the ass to do in the shop here.
Studs aren't easy, especially in a van, but the results are living proof.

BTW, ARP studs have allen socket heads, so removal can be easier.
A lot of people are happy with the ARP bolts, but I would suggest at least going with ARP something.
 
YEH, this factory 4 bolt'89 truck block in the vette is all roller with ARP on all the bolts....

question for you....another thread....
 
010752 said:
Solution was to use ARP studs and Felpro "Severe Duty" gasket.
QUOTE]

The quality gaskets solved your problem, not the studs. That motor doesn't have a clue as to what is holding the heads on. But if you're running on constant detination while pulling a car trailor, it definately cares what gasket you're using. More than likely, the block and heads weren't trued up when the motor was rebuilt and it took a racing type gasket to keep it sealed.

On the stud thing, to each his own. I'm not going to argue the point anymore. My OPINION is that the ONLY time head studs should be considered is if you using the motor in an application where the heads are pulled quite often for maintenance or R&D. Other than that, your money would be best spend elsewhere. Again, just my opinion.
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