2007 Engine Masters - thoughts and analysis

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guru

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So looking over the entrants to the 2007 engine masters, these guys are getting ridiculous power out of a 300-500ci motor, with a stock displacement, stock dimension components, readily available aftermarket parts, a flat tappet camshaft, and a limit of 10.5:1 compression. All motors ran on 91 octane gas, with royal purple 5w-30 oil.

http://popularhotrodding.automotive.com/60683/0802phr-2007-jegs-engine-masters-challenge/index.html

So I took an analysis of the top 6 as everything else was much lower in their max hp/max tq/average HP and average tq per CI.

Max TQ Per CI Max HP Per CI Average TQ per CI Average HP per CI
BES 403 1.441687345 1.669975186 1.322217515 1.150880591
SAM 351 1.455307263 1.673184358 1.306172503 1.144501976
Kaase 1.454094293 1.578163772 1.307692308 1.14585729
SAM 400 1.431421446 1.593516209 1.306976461 1.136062283
Power Shop 302 1.384364821 1.622149837 1.298959244 1.160721379
McKowen 400M 1.441176471 1.647058824 1.285688666 1.140602582


Minimum 1.384364821 1.578163772 1.285688666 1.136062283
Maximum 1.455307263 1.673184358 1.322217515 1.160721379
Average 1.434675273 1.630674698 1.304617783 1.146437684


So seriously a 355 chevy would need like 578hp at 6500, 509 tq at 4900, an average of 463 tq, and an average hp of 407hp between 2500-6500.

How in the hell are people pulling this off? I cant even get a wishful thinking computer scenario even remotely close.
 
Just for JSUP the winning Chevy 403 didnt use AFR heads.

The 302 that came in like 3rd did in fact use the AFR 195CNC heads.
 
guru said:
Just for JSUP the winning Chevy 403 didnt use AFR heads.

The 302 that came in like 3rd did in fact use the AFR 195CNC heads.
Click to expand...

What heads did they use? Is this 2007 or 2008. Isn't 2008 out yet?
 
guru said:
Just for JSUP the winning Chevy 403 didnt use AFR heads.

The 302 that came in like 3rd did in fact use the AFR 195CNC heads.
Click to expand...

Wow, he'll be disapointed:rofl:

Did I read that there was a $200,000 prize?
 
I think there is a lot of bull shit going on....1.5 hp/cu inch is believable, but when it's going higher than that for a flat tap engine that is N/A.....I start looking for hip boots, or something idling at 2000 min rpm.....

:banned:
 
BBShark said:
guru said:
Just for JSUP the winning Chevy 403 didnt use AFR heads.

The 302 that came in like 3rd did in fact use the AFR 195CNC heads.
Click to expand...

Wow, he'll be disapointed:rofl:

Did I read that there was a $200,000 prize?
Click to expand...


Sigh, for the record I really don't care what heads are on what other than to get the leghumpers to shut the fuck up about how great they are. I'm just tired of hearing it. The only thing that matters to me is that I don't have to listen to the leghumpers saying SEE....SEE....SEE look how wonderful AFR is! If they win, they get a big fat congratulations from me.
 
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2007. They used the afr 195 CNC comp eliminators on the 302.

Everything else that used AFR wasnt competitive. It was like a plataeu in competitiveness. Those guys on 1 level and everybody a knotch down slopping down to irrelevant.

I will have to do a runner check on the various runner calculators, it might just be that the AFR 195 head is PERFECT for a 302.

It appears that teh 195 head given the numbers i have is a good head for a 302, in the RPM ranges listed. It doesnt get choked until 7000rpm.
 
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Its all big blocks. I dont care about big blocks.

It took me awhile to copy and paste dynos into excel on my laptop and start running formulas on them.

If I can find the info when I get home tonight I will create a similiar spreadsheet using the top couple of qualifiers.
 
One of the builders of the winning motor has the same last name as me
 
I lied. The 2008 engine masters did in fact have the same rules as 2007.

The winner was teh KAASE ford 400. The 302 combo from laster year also did well. The winning combo from last year (I assume) from BES also did well.

Hell a vortec headed 355 did almost as well as teh AFR headed 355.

No combos have been published yet.
 
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guru said:
I lied. The 2008 engine masters did in fact have the same rules as 2007.

The winner was teh KAASE ford 400. The 302 combo from laster year also did well. The winning combo from last year (I assume) from BES also did well.

Hell a vortec headed 355 did almost as well as teh AFR headed 355.

No combos have been published yet.
Click to expand...

Got a link?
 
I also noted that all the carbs were HUGE. This also followed something I was thinking about the other day.

Your stock 355 got a 780cfm carb on it, and a ZZ4 today gets 750cfm.

So your 100% VE CFM requirement is about 75% of what size carb you probably actually want.

I think that engines are typically dramatically under carbed.
 
guru said:
How in the hell are people pulling this off? I cant even get a wishful thinking computer scenario even remotely close.
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That's why they're called engine "Masters". :)




As a footnote, if you read the articles, many of the entrants are worried about their engines starting and/or making it through the contest, etc. They've got to be on the bleeding edge of reliability...
 
A likely hypothesis. But perhaps is competition jitters. If sent in a 30K engine to competition that was going to be setup and dynoed by other people I would be pretty worried too about the possibility of bad bolt or some other failure.

When I was a swimmer I would pee like 3 times before each race from nerves.
 
guru said:
A likely hypothesis. But perhaps is competition jitters. If sent in a 30K engine to competition that was going to be setup and dynoed by other people I would be pretty worried too about the possibility of bad bolt or some other failure.

When I was a swimmer I would pee like 3 times before each race from nerves.
Click to expand...

In the swimming pool :eek:
 
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