Relay Question

Dirtbuster1

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
649
Location
Georgia
Why does GM use relays to power fuel injectors & coil packs in the newer cars. There is typically 4 connections used on the relay out of a possible 5. Is it used for a switching function when the ignition switch is either on or off? After the relays there is also a fuse to protect the ckt. Why do you need both?

Will someone please explain this for me!
 
Herb, i'ts one of my favorite questions about the over engineering of modern cars....it proves NOTHING....saves maybe ONE heavy amp wire and a lighter ignition switch contact set....about it....

Wife's Escort here has a BOSCH engine control module.....a board full of relays about 4x5" and just junk in that the ONE relay to fail on it so far is of course the infamous a/c compressor control relay, the ONE relay left off the schematics in Helms or whatever manual I have for the car....

once I found out where the module was I of course took it apart and fixed it by replacing the relay......Ford/Bosch needs 250 bux for that POS....ME, I had a 12 volt grenade proof relay in stock on the junk shelf.....blow THAT relay, damnit.....

THAT is but one aspect of several encounters between ME, and some of this over engineered CRAPOLA of the modern car factories....

ONE computer needed in a car....engine controls...the rest is bullshit with needed to run the friggin' CAR.....

:harhar::harhar::harhar::stirpot::crutches:
 
Think of a relay as an amplifier. You can use a little 1 amp switch, that can be VERY small, to turn on a 30 amp cicuit, which would require a LARGE switch.
Think of it even larger. A house switch is good for 15 amps. However, with the right size relay, the switch could turn on a 600 HP motor. Pretty neat,huh?
Relays also make it easier to interlock wiring. IE, this and this and this must be on to operate that.
 
Think of a relay as an amplifier. You can use a little 1 amp switch, that can be VERY small, to turn on a 30 amp cicuit, which would require a LARGE switch.
Think of it even larger. A house switch is good for 15 amps. However, with the right size relay, the switch could turn on a 600 HP motor. Pretty neat,huh?
Relays also make it easier to interlock wiring. IE, this and this and this must be on to operate that.

Yes, most obviously correct, Jeff, but the total over use in a car, like wife's Escort, and many other vehicles.....like a 'Body Control Computer' in a S10 pickup.....really now.....seriously, a CAR body so outta control it needs a computer to keep up???

MY body needed a computer to keep up with a GOGO dancers's body once...but well.....it was a different type of control....my rod was not deep enough in the pile.....


:lol::lol::lol:
 
Think of a relay as an amplifier. You can use a little 1 amp switch, that can be VERY small, to turn on a 30 amp cicuit, which would require a LARGE switch.
Think of it even larger. A house switch is good for 15 amps. However, with the right size relay, the switch could turn on a 600 HP motor. Pretty neat,huh?
Relays also make it easier to interlock wiring. IE, this and this and this must be on to operate that.

Yes, most obviously correct, Jeff, but the total over use in a car, like wife's Escort, and many other vehicles.....like a 'Body Control Computer' in a S10 pickup.....really now.....seriously, a CAR body so outta control it needs a computer to keep up???

MY body needed a computer to keep up with a GOGO dancers's body once...but well.....it was a different type of control....my rod was not deep enough in the pile.....


:lol::lol::lol:

World wide use of computers have made microprocessing cheap. Cheaper than hard wiring all the little bells and whistles. The WOW factor is cheap for the $$.
It's progress Gene, get over it already.
 
We are saying that the relay acts as a amplifier, correct? In other words similar to the way a transformer with primary & secondary windings works. I never thought about this way. So a relay will amplify a low amp signal to power multiple coil packs to fire the engine?

Simple, but complicated!
 
We are saying that the relay acts as a amplifier, correct? In other words similar to the way a transformer with primary & secondary windings works. I never thought about this way. So a relay will amplify a low amp signal to power multiple coil packs to fire the engine?

Simple, but complicated!

Kinda. A relay takes a low amperage control signal, and uses a coil to remotely close a larger contact.
In motor control, we use low amperage/voltage to do any logic functions, then use relays, some rather large, to control the larger amperage power functions.
Theoretically, I could wire my hallway switch to turn off the entire US grid.
(Greatly simplified, but feasable)
 
We are saying that the relay acts as a amplifier, correct? In other words similar to the way a transformer with primary & secondary windings works. I never thought about this way. So a relay will amplify a low amp signal to power multiple coil packs to fire the engine?

Simple, but complicated!

Kinda. A relay takes a low amperage control signal, and uses a coil to remotely close a larger contact.
In motor control, we use low amperage/voltage to do any logic functions, then use relays, some rather large, to control the larger amperage power functions.
Theoretically, I could wire my hallway switch to turn off the entire US grid.
(Greatly simplified, but feasable)

Damnit, no WONDER California has brownouts, it's all Jeff's fault, he wired that switch.....:shocking::gurney:

but on the car end, really the amount of wiring is still done, just done in a different way, the overall complexity increase buys nothing....more parts and sub assys to fail, and more opportunity for the makers to gouge high prices for some China import....

I have a neighbor friend next door here, not so good on English...contractor, from Phillipines, his 5 y/o Ford truck 250? has a mysterious drain on the battery....pulling the main 50 amp fuse under the hood relieves the drain...but no other fuse in the lineup does.....

sometimes the drain is 250 mils, sometimes it's 2.5 AMPS, and it changes as it damn well feels like it.....can't see any lights coming on/off, and 250 mills is to high anyway....so for me to help any further we gotta go wiring manual and some damn part burried in the left bank somewhere is probably at fault....

great....ME, I"d just stick a control relay in that 50 amp circuit and hell with it, turn it on and off with the switch on the dash.....or reroute the damn ignition to close the contacts.....get burned out with chasing that stupid shit....old cars ran the freeking same and were SO much simpler....

still running a wire, wether it's 22 ga or 12 ga, still more BS parts to sell....

customers with older vehicles are getting ready to take it up the ass but GOOD with all this crap....bad as special tool # J 1054326.5, and if you don't have that updated .5 on the end, sorry, but you need it and it's 500 bux off the Snap On truck......

Like TORX, get OVER it already, it's a freeking BOLT, stick a HEX cap on it, and get on down the road already....but NO, look at the bunch of sizes in that TORX set....can't tell one from another, when about 5 outta the set could cover the whole damn gammit of what they trying to accomplish....

private industry making work just like the WPA in the 30's....dig a hole, fill it up everyone gets paid, and the wheel fell off....

:gurney::bomb::shocking::beer::evil:
 
OK,

Here is an example of a fan relay ckt.

High Speed Fan Relay
Terminal 85 connect to PCM Red 33 - Dark Blue
Terminal 30 Connect to Fan positive
Terminal 86 Connect to constant 12V Power Supply
Terminal 87 Connect to Switched 12V Power Supply

Why does there need to be 2 power sources. ( Swithced & Constant )Why can't the fan use 1 power supply?

I'm slow!
 
We are saying that the relay acts as a amplifier, correct? In other words similar to the way a transformer with primary & secondary windings works. I never thought about this way. So a relay will amplify a low amp signal to power multiple coil packs to fire the engine?

Simple, but complicated!

Kinda. A relay takes a low amperage control signal, and uses a coil to remotely close a larger contact.
In motor control, we use low amperage/voltage to do any logic functions, then use relays, some rather large, to control the larger amperage power functions.
Theoretically, I could wire my hallway switch to turn off the entire US grid.
(Greatly simplified, but feasable)

Damnit, no WONDER California has brownouts, it's all Jeff's fault, he wired that switch.....:shocking::gurney:

but on the car end, really the amount of wiring is still done, just done in a different way, the overall complexity increase buys nothing....more parts and sub assys to fail, and more opportunity for the makers to gouge high prices for some China import....

I have a neighbor friend next door here, not so good on English...contractor, from Phillipines, his 5 y/o Ford truck 250? has a mysterious drain on the battery....pulling the main 50 amp fuse under the hood relieves the drain...but no other fuse in the lineup does.....

sometimes the drain is 250 mils, sometimes it's 2.5 AMPS, and it changes as it damn well feels like it.....can't see any lights coming on/off, and 250 mills is to high anyway....so for me to help any further we gotta go wiring manual and some damn part burried in the left bank somewhere is probably at fault....

great....ME, I"d just stick a control relay in that 50 amp circuit and hell with it, turn it on and off with the switch on the dash.....or reroute the damn ignition to close the contacts.....get burned out with chasing that stupid shit....old cars ran the freeking same and were SO much simpler....

still running a wire, wether it's 22 ga or 12 ga, still more BS parts to sell....

customers with older vehicles are getting ready to take it up the ass but GOOD with all this crap....bad as special tool # J 1054326.5, and if you don't have that updated .5 on the end, sorry, but you need it and it's 500 bux off the Snap On truck......

Like TORX, get OVER it already, it's a freeking BOLT, stick a HEX cap on it, and get on down the road already....but NO, look at the bunch of sizes in that TORX set....can't tell one from another, when about 5 outta the set could cover the whole damn gammit of what they trying to accomplish....

private industry making work just like the WPA in the 30's....dig a hole, fill it up everyone gets paid, and the wheel fell off....

:gurney::bomb::shocking::beer::evil:

I find this like complaining about a flat screen TV. Your stuck in the B&W Tube days Gene.
 
OK,

Here is an example of a fan relay ckt.

High Speed Fan Relay
Terminal 85 connect to PCM Red 33 - Dark Blue
Terminal 30 Connect to Fan positive
Terminal 86 Connect to constant 12V Power Supply
Terminal 87 Connect to Switched 12V Power Supply

Why does there need to be 2 power sources. ( Swithced & Constant )Why can't the fan use 1 power supply?

I'm slow!

Without a schematic, I can only ASSUME the switched is control, and the constant is power.
 
OK,

Here is an example of a fan relay ckt.

High Speed Fan Relay
Terminal 85 connect to PCM Red 33 - Dark Blue
Terminal 30 Connect to Fan positive
Terminal 86 Connect to constant 12V Power Supply
Terminal 87 Connect to Switched 12V Power Supply

Why does there need to be 2 power sources. ( Swithced & Constant )Why can't the fan use 1 power supply?

I'm slow!

85 is obviously one side of the relay coil, the computer grounds it, and the other side of the coil is probably 87 so even when the computer says whatever, if the ignition is off, there is no +12 o the coil, so it not able to close/pull the contacts closed....
30 is as stated and is the high current circuit....30 amps usually suffices....10 ga wire typically....
86 I would think goes through a 30 amp fuse and is the other contact that closes with the motor contact #30 above....that should be typically allways hot running off the main power stud of the alternator output....
which is the way I wired it on my car, a dedicated wire to the fan relay...the issue being to not pull any heavy currents through the harness or even the wire to the horn relay/power distribution point of the car/main harness....

I NEVER pull anything off the battery directly, especially anything that draws heavy currents.....not going into the theory....fought that battle years ago, don't care to again....

:smash:
 
I find this like complaining about a flat screen TV. Your stuck in the B&W Tube days Gene.

Complaint?? just waiting for the prices to come down, that's all....tried the cheep fix of flat clear spray on my CRT set, lost too much focus....scraped it off again...oh well.....

so far, it's wally world or die.....I keep waiting...maybe next year...

:shocking::hunter:
 
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