CNG and our engines....

Talking to my welder buddy and he says that Acetylene get unstable above 400 psi so that is the limit of compression for a cylinder....

what is the limit for CNG?? and how many CU' would it take to do a 350" vette how would it relate to power and fuel economy.....

I guess the power would be nearly doubled....with a much simpler fuel metering device...just a jet into the intake behind the throttle blades...

but from you smart guys on this group.....what are the chemistry equations for all that, what are the answers???

safety aside....so maybe not dooable for autos, but for major trucks, etc....why not...part of this Pickens Plan we see on TV a lot now....

Acetylene gets unstable above 15 PSI. I can't imagine what it would do at 400. CNG would act just like LPG I suspect. They've been using both for years. I think Atlanta uses both in the MARTA bus fleet. I've seen taxis running both too. Different experimental stuff.
Detroit Diesel makes/markets a 50 series engine that runs on CNG

I know the Propane truck up north delivering gas to my garage heater/furnace tank....that truck ran on it's cargo...Propane....engine was a diesel...sounded like one anyway....

14 psi...wonder if Johnny mis spoke or I have CRS....probably the latter....

at any rate, wonder how far a welder's tank full of CNG could take my vette??

mrvette said:

I know the Propane truck up north delivering gas to my garage heater/furnace tank....that truck ran on it's cargo...Propane....engine was a diesel...sounded like one anyway....

14 psi...wonder if Johnny mis spoke or I have CRS....probably the latter....

at any rate, wonder how far a welder's tank full of CNG could take my vette??

Click to expand...

Try it and let us know

LPG/CNG is very popular in The Netherlands for both 'normal' vehicles and muscle cars. We have a widely spread network of gasstations where we can tank LPG and most European car manucaturers offer LPG/CNG equipped cars as a factory option.

LPG/CNG requires a few modifacations under the hood, like an adaptorplate for the LNG mixer, a few cooling elements and some extra lines. This also depends on whether or not you still want to be able to drive on regular fuel.

Usually when keeping the ability to drive on petrol, the miles per gallon drop a little (10 to 15%), but with current LPG prices (about a third of 95 RON petrol) that's no problem. IMPCO parts are much used on musclecars here (their 425 mixer is probably the best for large cui engines), and varying on the type of car, people use the larger 'welder's tank' type 200 litre tanks or smaller, fitting the spare tire carrier round type 100 litre tanks. A conversion typically costs about € 900,- to € 2000,- depending on DIY installation or dealer installation and selected parts and other choices.

There are a few LPG equipped C3 'vettes in The Netherlands, they do about 200 miles on a full 100 litre LPG tank and still have the stock gastank to switch to if they run out of LPG.

Good conversion link: http://www.fiodh.com/cherokee/propane.html

Some pictures of LPG equipped engines:

305 suburban engine:


440 cui big block:

Worship, thanks for your information about the mpg and the links there....problem is 26 gallons for 200 miles is just 8 mpg, about 1/2 what I get now....so with a total conversion, tire carrier, tank, the works the very best I can get in the car capacity wise would be about 40 gallons....even IF they sold it at 40% less/gallon than gasolines....it's obviously not worth the conversion as the fuel cost rises....by about 10-20% roughly....

so that means I have to suppose a decrease in engine power also.....

now IF the LNG was available at 25% less/gallon of gas....I could see the outlay for the conversion....

I hear you all there getting lots of fairly cheep Nat Gas from Russian pipelines so on your side of the pond, I suppose it makes some sense...much less the tax structures for fuels...something I know they tax hell outta gasoline, but dunno about LNG.....


on well, had to ask, they running all sorts of TV addy's here about LNG and so for to convert the fleet, but not for us old car guys....

thanks....


:stirpot::crap::suicide:

LPG (actually a byproduct of gasoline production) does 0,60 versus 1,55 per litre over here, so ROI is about 3 to 5 years depending on your mileage. Also a switch to only LPG could result in increased engine power. LPG compares to about 108 RON, which means you can get away with more compression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gas

I think you have LNG and CNG confused?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_natural_gas#CNG_compared_to_LNG

Worship79 said:

LPG (actually a byproduct of gasoline production) does 0,60 versus 1,55 per litre over here, so ROI is about 3 to 5 years depending on your mileage. Also a switch to only LPG could result in increased engine power. LPG compares to about 108 RON, which means you can get away with more compression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gas

I think you have LNG and CNG confused?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_natural_gas#CNG_compared_to_LNG

Click to expand...

I had assumed they are the same product, compressed gas till it's a liquid, no?? I dunno, but they are talking C N G here, which is apparently not what I would be interested in.....just not a cost/price/economic move....

now if I had a CHEEP source for LNG...yeh....maybe worth it....

BTW, I have a terrible time with getting decent gas here in Florida...going to switch the Chevron almost exclusively when I fill up again....

:bounce::quote:

Worship79 said:

LPG (actually a byproduct of gasoline production) does 0,60 versus 1,55 per litre over here, so ROI is about 3 to 5 years depending on your mileage. Also a switch to only LPG could result in increased engine power. LPG compares to about 108 RON, which means you can get away with more compression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gas

I think you have LNG and CNG confused?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_natural_gas#CNG_compared_to_LNG

Click to expand...

Congress has encouraged conversion of cars to CNG with a tax credits of up to 50% of the auto conversion cost and the CNG home filling station cost. However, while CNG is much cleaner fuel, the conversion requires a type certificate from the EPA. Meeting the requirements of a type certificate can cost up to $50,000.


TYPE certified....think ANYONE would do that for a old shark?? NO....so we do our own?? unless the nazi's in Kalifornia get wind of it....

so far we have kept the nazis at bay in Florida.....:shocking:

Wow man, that really bl*ws! Type certification is required here too, but only costs about €90,- (say 150 bucks).