BB and SB roller cams

BRUTAL64

Neanderthal
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
1,302
Location
Huntington Beach, California
Since I have not used roller cams to the extent that I have flat tappet cams I was hoping that you people- with roller cams -could share some information.

What would help here is:

Brand name-part number and roller type
specs of cam-duration at .050
Lift- rocker ratio
LSA and (if possible) intake center line

Also, type and size of engine.
Compression
Induction system.

Finally;
Any comments of what you think of cam and what you would have done different if you are not totally happy with current cam.
This is not about about pure MPG, it's about Horsepower and torque. In my search for the PERFECT cam for a 496 I've been getting a lot of crap info from the cam compaines. Wheather it is a SB or BB roller cam, with your info I'll be able to sort this shit once and for all.:drink:

This will help us all in the future and with MPG figures I compiled on an earlier thread, this could be VERY useful.

Thanks for any information you supply.:beer:
 
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Just posted on another thread, I have a old TPIS ZZ9 cam in my engine it's a 355 roller motor...'89 truck 4 bolt block....
#113 L98 aluminum heads....I think of it as a ZZ4 engine with one step up on the cam....built 12 years ago, nearly....100k miles on the engine is a reasonable guess.....

with the LT1 intake and computer it gets 22.222 mpg and supposedly good for damn close to 400 hp....that is at 90 mph level land, and with a 200 4r in overdrive.....336 rear....

that's all I know for a fact....:quote:
 
Just posted on another thread, I have a old TPIS ZZ9 cam in my engine it's a 355 roller motor...'89 truck 4 bolt block....
#113 L98 aluminum heads....I think of it as a ZZ4 engine with one step up on the cam....built 12 years ago, nearly....100k miles on the engine is a reasonable guess.....

with the LT1 intake and computer it gets 22.222 mpg and supposedly good for damn close to 400 hp....that is at 90 mph level land, and with a 200 4r in overdrive.....336 rear....

that's all I know for a fact....:quote:

Ok, good start, I'll look for the ZZ9 specs. Thanks:cool:
 
Jones Cam-#HR70335-73335
Hydraulic BB

.569/.569, 1.7 Rocker Ratio
280/292 224/[email protected]
LC 111
Intake CL 108

454 bored .030
CR 10.7
BB Qjet.
462hp/532tqe on engine dyno
Stock Intake and exhaust manifolds
34 advance all in 2800RPM, 93 Octane-No Problems
11" vacuum at idle
Stock Dizzy with points conversion.



Lopy idle, seat busting torque throughout the range. 17MPG Hwy, no idea city MPG. I absolutely love the jolt when you lay into it.
 
Comp hydr roller 12-432-8 dur at .050" 230/236 lift with 1.5 rockers 0.510/0.520 112lsa

383ci, bored .030" 4bolt main block, 3.75" stroke, 5.700" rods, forged pistons with 17cc dish, 9.8:CR with .028" head gaskets and Edelbrock RPM heads. Performer intake, performer 600cfm carb.

I'm very happy with this cam in my 383 SB, makes power off idle and goes to 6500 easy.... I need better heads and a bigger carb but that another story...
 
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Jones Cam-#HR70335-73335
Hydraulic BB

.569/.569, 1.7 Rocker Ratio
280/292 224/[email protected]
LC 111
Intake CL 108

454 bored .030
CR 10.7
BB Qjet.
462hp/532tqe on engine dyno
Stock Intake and exhaust manifolds
34 advance all in 2800RPM, 93 Octane-No Problems
11" vacuum at idle
Stock Dizzy with points conversion.



Lopy idle, seat busting torque throughout the range. 17MPG Hwy, no idea city MPG. I absolutely love the jolt when you lay into it.


Perfect!!!!!!! This is the stuff we need. Good job.:trumpet:


Since your information is so complete I'm going run some numbers in the computer. I'll do this on Monday.
 
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Comp hydr roller 12-432-8 dur at .050" 230/236 lift with 1.5 rockers 0.510/0.520 112lsa

I'm very happy with this cam in my 383 SB, makes power off idle and goes to 6500 easy.... I need better heads and a bigger carb but that another story...


This information is priceless. As the information collects, we will see a trend in Roller Cam numbers.
I've been talking to Cam companies for years, but the best infomation is what comes from the engine owner.
:friends:

Mybad: Do you have the vacuum reading at idle? Also idle rpm and is it lopy, rough....etc? Thanks.
 
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Jones Cam-#HR70335-73335
Hydraulic BB

.569/.569, 1.7 Rocker Ratio
280/292 224/[email protected]
LC 111
Intake CL 108

454 bored .030
CR 10.7
BB Qjet.
462hp/532tqe on engine dyno
Stock Intake and exhaust manifolds
34 advance all in 2800RPM, 93 Octane-No Problems
11" vacuum at idle
Stock Dizzy with points conversion.



Lopy idle, seat busting torque throughout the range. 17MPG Hwy, no idea city MPG. I absolutely love the jolt when you lay into it.


Perfect!!!!!!! This is the stuff we need. Good job.:trumpet:


Since your information is so complete I'm going run some numbers in the computer. I'll do this on Monday.


Ran the numbers;
Used a stock LS6 as a base with headers

501 hp at 5000 rpm
580 ftlbs at 3500 rpm



543 ftlbs at 2000


Interesting.
 
Jones Cam-#HR70335-73335
Hydraulic BB

.569/.569, 1.7 Rocker Ratio
280/292 224/[email protected]
LC 111
Intake CL 108

454 bored .030
CR 10.7
BB Qjet.
462hp/532tqe on engine dyno
Stock Intake and exhaust manifolds
34 advance all in 2800RPM, 93 Octane-No Problems
11" vacuum at idle
Stock Dizzy with points conversion.



Lopy idle, seat busting torque throughout the range. 17MPG Hwy, no idea city MPG. I absolutely love the jolt when you lay into it.


Perfect!!!!!!! This is the stuff we need. Good job.:trumpet:


Since your information is so complete I'm going run some numbers in the computer. I'll do this on Monday.


Ran the numbers;
Used a stock LS6 as a base with headers

501 hp at 5000 rpm
580 ftlbs at 3500 rpm



543 ftlbs at 2000


Interesting.

When I plug iheaders with my setup, I get a little higher numbers than yours. Can headers add 50 more hp over the stock BB vette manifolds?

I've played with a few different setups with this cam...but it looks like the limiting factor in all of them is the exhaust flow.
 
Jones Cam-#HR70335-73335
Hydraulic BB

.569/.569, 1.7 Rocker Ratio
280/292 224/[email protected]
LC 111
Intake CL 108

454 bored .030
CR 10.7
BB Qjet.
462hp/532tqe on engine dyno
Stock Intake and exhaust manifolds
34 advance all in 2800RPM, 93 Octane-No Problems
11" vacuum at idle
Stock Dizzy with points conversion.



Lopy idle, seat busting torque throughout the range. 17MPG Hwy, no idea city MPG. I absolutely love the jolt when you lay into it.


Perfect!!!!!!! This is the stuff we need. Good job.:trumpet:


Since your information is so complete I'm going run some numbers in the computer. I'll do this on Monday.


Ran the numbers;
Used a stock LS6 as a base with headers

501 hp at 5000 rpm
580 ftlbs at 3500 rpm



543 ftlbs at 2000


Interesting.

When I plug iheaders with my setup, I get a little higher numbers than yours. Can headers add 50 more hp over the stock BB vette manifolds?

I've played with a few different setups with this cam...but it looks like the limiting factor in all of them is the exhaust flow.


Yea, it can give 50 hp or more with headers. I used open headers for the numbers.
But, I used a STOCK port LS6 port flow numbers. What numbers did you get and what heads are you using for your numbers?:bump:


Went and choked the engine with a stock exhaust;

440 hp at 5500
542 ftlbs at 3500

490 ftlbs at 2000
 
Last edited:
Jones Cam-#HR70335-73335
Hydraulic BB

.569/.569, 1.7 Rocker Ratio
280/292 224/[email protected]
LC 111
Intake CL 108

454 bored .030
CR 10.7
BB Qjet.
462hp/532tqe on engine dyno
Stock Intake and exhaust manifolds
34 advance all in 2800RPM, 93 Octane-No Problems
11" vacuum at idle
Stock Dizzy with points conversion.



Lopy idle, seat busting torque throughout the range. 17MPG Hwy, no idea city MPG. I absolutely love the jolt when you lay into it.


Perfect!!!!!!! This is the stuff we need. Good job.:trumpet:


Since your information is so complete I'm going run some numbers in the computer. I'll do this on Monday.


Ran the numbers;
Used a stock LS6 as a base with headers

501 hp at 5000 rpm
580 ftlbs at 3500 rpm



543 ftlbs at 2000


Interesting.

When I plug iheaders with my setup, I get a little higher numbers than yours. Can headers add 50 more hp over the stock BB vette manifolds?

I've played with a few different setups with this cam...but it looks like the limiting factor in all of them is the exhaust flow.


Yea, it can give 50 hp or more with headers. I used open headers for the numbers.
But, I used a STOCK port LS6 port flow numbers. What numbers did you get and what heads are you using for your numbers?:bump:


Went and choked the engine with a stock exhaust;

440 hp at 5500
542 ftlbs at 3500

490 ftlbs at 2000

That's a pretty big difference between stock exhaust and headers. I get 514 hp at 5500 and 567ftlbs at 3500. I get this using large tube headers with mufflers.

I have stock LS5 290 oval port heads. Here's the numbers I get.

450 hp at 5500
525 ftlbs at 3500
451 ftlbs at 2000


Then engine dynoed better, but I have been using the stock set-up as a base line in my simulations and just using the changes to determine the improvement.
 
Mybad: Do you have the vacuum reading at idle? Also idle rpm and is it lopy, rough....etc? Thanks.

Idle is around 900rpm, pretty lopy but that's how I like it :smash:, it's not really all that rough but noticeable...

It sure would sound great at 750rpm but I don't have a electric choke so I set it to where it needs to be when the engine is at temperature.
i do not own a vacuum gauge but headlights and brakes are fine....:smash:
 
Mybad: Do you have the vacuum reading at idle? Also idle rpm and is it lopy, rough....etc? Thanks.

Idle is around 900rpm, pretty lopy but that's how I like it :smash:, it's not really all that rough but noticeable...

It sure would sound great at 750rpm but I don't have a electric choke so I set it to where it needs to be when the engine is at temperature.
i do not own a vacuum gauge but headlights and brakes are fine....:smash:

Hey, thanks for the info.:drink:
 
SmokinBBC;18148 That's a pretty big difference between stock exhaust and headers. I get 514 hp at 5500 and 567ftlbs at 3500. I get this using large tube headers with mufflers. I have stock LS5 290 oval port heads. Here's the numbers I get. 450 hp at 5500 525 ftlbs at 3500 451 ftlbs at 2000 Then engine dynoed better said:
Actually our numbers are fairly close. There is something to be said for these computer dyno programs. They have their use, but it's mostly for comparsion on engine changes. It's still fun to see the numbers that it runs.:noworry:
 
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All of my solid roller motors have used quality single planes and very free flowing three inch exhausts. I also believe that the higher the head flow in CFM, the less cam duration required to make a certain power level.

I have a small block and you have a big block. So to make a true comparison about head flow you have get an equal ratio of of engine ci divided by CFM.

So 383 ci and 309 cfm = @ 1.25 ci per one cfm 496ci divided by 395 cfm head flow is 1.25 ci per one cfm

My 434 and 309 cfm = @1.38 496 ci / 1.38 = 360 cfm of intake flow

I've had three S/R cams in my 383 all with higher than .600 lift and again you would have to do a ratio comparison to make it equal to your larger ci. but you would need cams with .700+ lift to equal a small block lifting .600+ or over .800 to compare with my .685/714 RR lobe profile.

my first cam was a 232/240 112 crane S/R which was detonation prone with my 11.2 compression So I then jumped to 240/248 112 This cam exceeded my 7500 limit for redline. Dropped down to 236/242 in the comp cams extreme lobes ground on 112 and .620/.620 lift using 1.65/1.6 rockers

Very fun machine to drive when combined with a TKO 600. It powers into the 7500 rev limiter. It's kind of fun to road race the 383. Instead of shifting just before a braking zone I learned to just keep it on the floor in the rev limiter right up until the braking point. it is very common in lapping cars to not upset the balance with extra up and down shifts. Very good MPG 20ish on long trips and with the 700R4 a consistant 11.70 machine even in road race trim

Next motor was 427 small block same Dart 227 heads. I went on the small side with CC extreme 242/248. 110 It was only a 10.4 C/r and auto 700R4 tranny 3800 stall. Real TQ monster Peak power somewhere in the low 6000 rpm and pull hard to 7000 ish. It just did not have brutish power so I installed the TKO 600 with my 4.11 to free up 25 more hp and it was more fun.

My present cam is about all you would want for street and strip with 11.8 compression and 434 ci It about gets the front tires off the ground on the street 248/252 .685/.714 110 when you start getting over 600 hp and nearly 600 foot pounds of TQ Vettes are allot more fun to drive and it is civil enough to take a 250 mile Sunday mountain cruise with the GF
 
All of my solid roller motors have used quality single planes and very free flowing three inch exhausts. I also believe that the higher the head flow in CFM, the less cam duration required to make a certain power level.

I have a small block and you have a big block. So to make a true comparison about head flow you have get an equal ratio of of engine ci divided by CFM.

So 383 ci and 309 cfm = @ 1.25 ci per one cfm 496ci divided by 395 cfm head flow is 1.25 ci per one cfm

My 434 and 309 cfm = @1.38 496 ci / 1.38 = 360 cfm of intake flow

I've had three S/R cams in my 383 all with higher than .600 lift and again you would have to do a ratio comparison to make it equal to your larger ci. but you would need cams with .700+ lift to equal a small block lifting .600+ or over .800 to compare with my .685/714 RR lobe profile.

my first cam was a 232/240 112 crane S/R which was detonation prone with my 11.2 compression So I then jumped to 240/248 112 This cam exceeded my 7500 limit for redline. Dropped down to 236/242 in the comp cams extreme lobes ground on 112 and .620/.620 lift using 1.65/1.6 rockers

Very fun machine to drive when combined with a TKO 600. It powers into the 7500 rev limiter. It's kind of fun to road race the 383. Instead of shifting just before a braking zone I learned to just keep it on the floor in the rev limiter right up until the braking point. it is very common in lapping cars to not upset the balance with extra up and down shifts. Very good MPG 20ish on long trips and with the 700R4 a consistant 11.70 machine even in road race trim

Next motor was 427 small block same Dart 227 heads. I went on the small side with CC extreme 242/248. 110 It was only a 10.4 C/r and auto 700R4 tranny 3800 stall. Real TQ monster Peak power somewhere in the low 6000 rpm and pull hard to 7000 ish. It just did not have brutish power so I installed the TKO 600 with my 4.11 to free up 25 more hp and it was more fun.

My present cam is about all you would want for street and strip with 11.8 compression and 434 ci It about gets the front tires off the ground on the street 248/252 .685/.714 110 when you start getting over 600 hp and nearly 600 foot pounds of TQ Vettes are allot more fun to drive and it is civil enough to take a 250 mile Sunday mountain cruise with the GF

Thanks for the information.:thumbs:
 
Sent to cncmotorsports.com
I have a 454 mark 4 block 30 over.
a set of 1971 ls6 heads 3994026 and intake.
a 750 proform carb.
2" hooker headers 4" collectors side pipes.
and will be building this engine for a 1974 corvette. that I want to run on pump gas.
torq is great, top end speed is not that important.
What rotating assemblie and cam should I use. to make it a 496?
And do you have any numbers for hp and torq?
Thank you
Darrow

Any suggestions from those in the know....
any help will be very much appreciated.
From one who knows not what he is doing......:sos:
 
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Sent to cncmotorsports.com
I have a 454 mark 4 block 30 over.
a set of 1971 ls6 heads 3994026 and intake.
a 750 proform carb.
2" hooker headers 4" collectors side pipes.
and will be building this engine for a 1974 corvette. that I want to run on pump gas.
torq is great, top end speed is not that important.
What rotating assemblie and cam should I use. to make it a 496?
And do you have any numbers for hp and torq?
Thank you
Darrow

Any suggestions from those in the know....
any help will be very much appreciated.
From one who knows not what he is doing......:sos:

Darrrow:

Start here.http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1419

I have a number of Cam combos I did for Tim.
 
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